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Topic ClosedWhy do some people have religous beliefs?
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 16:03
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Most likely but would not any strategy be a belief 
Yes, not believing could be construed as a belief. But what I'm referring to is not trusting, which is different from belief. I seek empirical data to support a claim, not an argument to support a belief in a claim.

Edited by SteveG - October 26 2015 at 16:37
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Points: 995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 16:01
Originally posted by wilmon91 wilmon91 wrote:

Another interesting question would be if you met a psychopath, with no sense of feelings and empathy, who asked you what was the point of feelings?

What arguments are there to convince the psychopath about the value of feelings and conscience?

(Only a robot has no feeling, and if there's a will it is dicted by feelings). Absolute empathy is nearly impossible since it requires that one would be able to feel like someone with different experiment and memories. Now people that are called "psychos" have developed an addictive taste for absolute power on others (of any kind) and they're sort of emprisoned into that feeling of being irresistible.

Maybe you'd like to know whether a psycho would convert to judeo-christianism: the answer is yes, everyone can "repent" even crazy killers, but better be put out of exerting power first.


Edited by jayem - October 27 2015 at 06:09
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 15:58
Most likely but would not any strategy be a belief 
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The T View Drop Down
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 15:55
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Because those people need it. Plain and simple. Whether because they were raised to need it or because they have grown to need it doesn't matter. It's just a need addiction. 
Religion is the opium of the people
 
Karl Marx
 
 
 
If my statement was rather simplistic, yours is too much so. 

Also, opium might be good... Tongue
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 15:50
Perhaps, if you hold both our government, religion, sport steam and your government, religion and sports team to be equally scrutinized and not take either one at face value as being better or believed in, as you put it, this would not be a problem.
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 15:44
I think disbelief plays an important role , not only do I believe in my government, religion, sports team, I disbelieve in your government, religion, sports team. The remedy is marching over and strip away your government, religion and sports team. We wore white hats and the native americans were savages.
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 15:36
An absolute belief in a single theory or idea is what causes wars, kills countless thousands, etc. etc. etc.
 
You know Tim, that might just be as close to a universal truth as we can come.
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 15:32
All theories are valid is as lame as..........Absolute belief in one theory makes as much sense to me as a belief in one true deity, one true religion, one universal truth
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 15:31
Absolute belief in one theory makes as much sense to me as a belief in one true deity, one true religion, one universal truth...are you enlightened yet?
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 15:28
okay, enlighten me
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 15:23
All theories are valid to me, Tim. Unfortunately, that's what you don't understand.
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 15:18
You are the one who posted a thread which invited theories, since you have not read the book your dismissal of the theory seems uninformed.
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 15:11
Tim, critique and criticism of Janyes's theory  will go on long after we're dead. When Jayne's theory becomes a fact, I will acknowledge it.

Edited by SteveG - October 26 2015 at 15:12
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 15:04
Recent neuroimaging studies provide new evidence for Jaynes's neurological model, i.e. auditory hallucinations arising in the right temporal-parietal lobe and being transmitted to the left temporal-parietal lobe. This was pointed out by Dr. Robert Olin in Lancet[17] and Dr. Leo Sher in the Journal of Psychiatry and Neuroscience,[18] and further discussed in the book Reflections on the Dawn of Consciousness.[19]
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 15:00
I'll read the book Tim, but it's another theory that no one can prove.
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 14:58
Yea, don't read the book
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 14:54
No problem Tim, I can throw the destruction of bicameralism onto the pile.
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 14:48

The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind...........Julian Jaynes.
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 14:48
Oh, and I dismiss the notion that my question can have one all encompassing answer. That to me is hubris at it's worst.Smile
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2015 at 14:41

There are probably many valid answers to my question. Although, it can't be verified, I feel that we humans base a lot of our actions on beliefs. If we believe we're in eminent danger, such as a hearing someone breaking into our house at night, we're going to perform actions that will put ourselves out of danger quickly. It could have just been someone who was drunk and was trying to get in the wrong house.

 
In these cases, we act on belief. We believe we're in danger and don't wait around to confirm this notion with absolute fact finding observation.
 
So, I think we can transfer this 'protection belief' system to other aspects of our behaviors such as belief in deities, afterlife, etc., along with the standard thinking of cultural conditioning, Freud's 'fear of death' mental response and hundreds, if not thousands of other valid reasons and theories for why we have religious beliefs.
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