Worldwide solidarity with Gaza

Sagichim wrote: I don't think it's a situation where there will be a winning and a losing side, although both sides might consider themselves to be in one of those sides. IMO the key to success here is compromise and encouraging peace step by step. There is no reason why Palestinians in Gaza won't have the same thriving life as their fellow Palestinians in Israel, unfortunately they are ruled by a terror organization who believes war is the way of getting to peace or demands. The moment they will vomit those organizations from them they will be on the road of making a better future for themselves.

The reason that (I think) both Akamaisondufromage and myself referenced the Northern Ireland conflict, is that a resolution will not come via official channels but from those avenues that both protagonists deem to be ultra vires. i.e. vouchsafed 'unflinching solidarity' merely creates a gridlock on the martyr express-lane to oblivion. If there is to be a credible lasting peace, it will be in spite of the diplomatic entreaties to same.

I don't think it's a situation where there will be a winning and a losing side, although both sides might consider themselves to be in one of those sides. IMO the key to success here is compromise and encouraging peace step by step.

^ well put Mr Cheese.

Edited by Dean - August 02 2014 at 06:39

Well apart from a couple of posts by Lazland & specifically tszirmay (plus one or 2 others), this thread has developed exactly as any other "Solidarity with (insert current polarised conflict situation here)" thread can do - keyboard warriors unite, you have nothing to lose but your ojectivity

I think I'll leave my last word to Willy Wonka:

Hamas has breached another cease fire which was supposed to be the opportunity to discuss its terms and give its civilians a little time off. Hamas has no regard or respect for its people and continues to act between them.

Seems kinda sadly ironic that the two posters at diametric loggerheads (Sagichim and Adams Bolero) both have Hendrix avatars (excuse while I kiss the sky/this guy? - Go figure)

The Huffington Post is by many considered as being a fairly reliable source of news and analysis. This article is interesting, at least for those who consider that newspaper to be a reliable source of news.

Once again, the most complex issues are being bandied about by internet ‘pundits’ who see everything in either black or white. Truth is the world is a multi-colored affair and there are 100 shades of grey. Many people post their slanted views based on emotion (nothing really wrong with that, in essence) but history teaches you one incredible lesson= there are so many layers to any event because circumstances, previous consequences, geography, context, disinformation/propaganda and ugly base politics can roil the waters to such an extent that its so much easier to keep it simple and thus stupid. 

It’s not about YES human shields or NO human shields, it’s about 2 very important issues. And please bear in mind that my 45 years of study has proven only one thing = War begets war. It’s cyclical and unjust. I choose to blame all the belligerents.

One: strategy. Tunnels generally lead prisoners to freedom (jails, penitentiaries, Berlin Wall etc..) but here they lead to the enemy ! Gaza is the most densely populated area in the world, a city-sized enclave, surrounded by a very hostile Egypt (need we remind that Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt are no fans of Hamas because it’s a militarized, weapon-laden autocratic political party) and the “Zionist enemy”. So the problem is that Gazans have nowhere to evacuate to as the Mediterranean is not an option. Hamas has managed twice to have the Israelis leave, yet continue to lob rockets and suicide bombers at them. Give me a finger, I will take your arm. So Hamas knows it cannot expect Israel to carpet bomb the city, like Dresden or Hiroshima because 1.8 million dead would be unacceptable to any human. They also know that since Gazans cannot go anywhere, the civilians will pay the ultimate price for their incarceration. A responsible civilized civil government would state” fine, we stop rocketing, we stop fighting back, Israel go away”, as far as I know, Israel has done that twice already. But Hamas is very clever as it knows it will win the war of popular opinion, since it’s always the invader who is the aggressor. Other empirical warrior nations in past history have invaded without warning, have massacred without warning and retreated only with a ‘scorched earth’ policy.   The density of the conflict zone is such that all forms of collateral damage are inevitable, it’s like shooting fish in a barrel, and one bullet can hurt more than one person. Gaza is not a wide open desert (like Irak), it’s urban warfare, the ugliest, cruelest form of military conflict, where buildings collapse and civilians die.  The Israelis have laser –guided equipment , verified by satellite as well as drones , designed to identify enemy rocket or artillery firing positions and immediately (within 30 seconds or less) laser-point direct return fire to an accuracy of a dozen feet. Hamas is perfectly aware of this since its Hezbollah colleagues were victimized by this technology in the past on the northern border. But a dozen feet means that innocent bystanders sardine-canned into unlivable conditions, with no escape,  will be killed. The Hamas rockets are random, the Israeli return fire is not but it does cause horrible civilian casualties.  

Two: philosophy. There are essentially two kind of soldiers fighting in any given conflict , the highly motivated and radicalized warrior who is ready to die willingly for his cause , generally older (30s) and who has no qualms about killing or being killed (in WW2 the Japanese kamikaze and the German Waffen SS,  current ISIS and various world-wide militias) . Then you have the 19 to 20 year old who are drafted into conflict and the initial bravado evaporates when the brains of a friend gets splattered all over them. I have interviewed both and the second ones are obligated to conduct themselves according to “rules of engagement” (IDF’s charter does not, I repeat, does not encourage shooting of prisoners or executing civilians). But war is a messy and cruel business, drafted young soldiers are universally scared and do occasionally “shoot first and talk later”.

Truth is that, just like with all wars, both sides kill. That is what soldiers do. Yes, Hamas does use human shields and Israeli soldiers do shoot first and worry later. There is no such thing as clean war. Dresden, Hamburg, Berlin, Rotterdam, Leningrad, Warsaw, Budapest, Tokyo, London, Coventry, Grozny the list is endless.

Unfortunately always too late, human nature will eventually kick in and it will end, both sides tired of the blood-letting. Its been like this since the dawn of time. 

For a more balanced point of view on the conflict as seen from an Israel point of view, I can recommend the newspaper Haaretz.

Guys I know this is happening as we speak and emotions run high, but I would like to throw a bone of peace into this very thread.
I said this before, although in a slightly different manner, but it is impossible to fathom how this conflict affects the people actually living there. Sagi does. Now I know him very well and consider him to be one of the kindest people I have spoken to on this board.
I can't imagine having to live through this with a family, and you do Sagi - just like every other person down there, Israeli or Palestinian, doesn't matter.

I despise all war, and think it's the lowest of low we can ever go as human beings. I am not rooting for anyone in this conflict because it would be immoral to me. I root for my friends, and like I said earlier, they are indeed residing on both sides of the fence.

If we can't have any sense of peace in a thread about a war, how are they ever going to figure things out in real life? And 99% of the posters in here don't even live there.