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DDPascalDD View Drop Down
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Points: 856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 13:49
For the making of my album I just made an orchestral intro, kind of cinematic. Should I add more layers or make the melody more clear (in the lo strings)?
ANY reply is very welcome!


Edited by DDPascalDD - October 01 2015 at 13:51
New album! "A Moment of Thought"
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Points: 1420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2015 at 14:38
Thanks, men! I appreciate your kind words. Also I did post about my project here too, where you can find previews of my current work and more stuff other than the tons of albums on bandcamp:
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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2015 at 13:33
I can't listen until I get back to the dorm, but the lyrics are quite good. A little archaic maybe, but still well-written.
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2015 at 09:29

^This is truly powerful stuff that I had ponder over slowly verse by verse. Brilliant. Thank you for sharing your experiences that is both emotive and nuanced at the same time. Clap
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Points: 1420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2015 at 07:41
https://esmectatons.bandcamp.com/album/la-grotta-di-isolazionismo

musical reflections on my autism
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2015 at 10:46
Right on! The actual music to this piece is a bit dreamy and ethereal, which adds some completely different dynamics to the interpretation, but the 'waking in the morning' scenario is intact.
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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2015 at 10:33
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 I felt that you were possibly confusing ambiguity, abstraction and surrealism, so my bad. I agree that abstract lyrics require images and proposed that the listener can supply these, which you felt was the listener writing the song. When a certain song hits someone with the feeling "Oh God, he wrote that song specifically for me", it's the listener relating the song to his own life experiences. It's the abstract scattershot approach that lets certain listeners have the illusion that they 'own' the song.
To be fair, I do know one or two people who respond to that. But only a rare sort of person is going to hang onto every word you say just because you are saying it. You have to grab their interest. Imagination, not lack thereof, inspires imagination. You can poke at mysteries which inspire the listener to use their imagination, but you can't present pureed language and expect them to fill in the blanks themselves. Most people will just turn their attention to the music, and, to be fair, sound based or placeholder lyrics are a perfectly valid form of lyricism. But you overestimate your audience if you think they will actually read into them, if you haven't first engaged them.

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

These are lyrics from Harper's song Sleeping at the Wheel. So back to me point about being ambiguous. What do you think about these?
  
Through the window
Just a wall
Shapes are forming
Blackbirds call
Early morning spirits
Moving hands
Tick-tocking ages
In the half-light of the still
Before the lark
Where I can feel my shadow
Touch your silence
in the dark
Sleeping at the wheel
reaching for oceans before us
for us to feel
together, tonight
Playing eagle
firing eyes
ever willing
sweet surprise
Welling in the belly
Of their chase
Tracing out the angel
In the half-light on your face
Before the lark
Where I can feel my shadow
Touch your silence,
in the dark
Sleeping at the wheel
reaching for oceans before us
for us to feel
together, tonight
Then suddenly
I hear you say
"Time to get up
It's gone midday,
Cup of tea love"
And I realize
I must have dropped off
drifted into dream before the lark
yielded to the ether of our secret world
in the dark


I interpreted this as a person waking up in the morning after a night of sex as if coming to reality. The more ambiguous imagery illustrates perhaps intoxication, but mostly just provides a contrast that emphasizes the "waking up" sensation. I could provide a line by line interpretation, but the point is that it interested me enough to do so. The language and the imagery took imagination to write and so provoked mine.
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2015 at 09:40
 I felt that you were possibly confusing ambiguity, abstraction and surrealism, so my bad. It's questionable if a surreal image would disturb someone along as they're aware that the image is just that, surreal, an image that is a play on reality. 
 
I do agree that abstract lyrics require images and proposed that the listener can supply these, which you felt was the listener writing the song. When a certain song hits someone with the feeling "Oh God, he wrote that song specifically for me", it's the listener relating the song to his own life experiences. It's the abstract scattershot approach that lets certain listeners have the illusion that they 'own' the song.
 
These are lyrics from Harper's song Sleeping at the Wheel which are generally sans abstractions. So back to my point about being ambiguous. What do you think about these?
  
Through the window
Just a wall
Shapes are forming
Blackbirds call
Early morning spirits
Moving hands
Tick-tocking ages
In the half-light of the still
Before the lark
Where I can feel my shadow
Touch your silence
in the dark
Sleeping at the wheel
reaching for oceans before us
for us to feel
together, tonight
Playing eagle
firing eyes
ever willing
sweet surprise
Welling in the belly
Of their chase
Tracing out the angel
In the half-light on your face
Before the lark
Where I can feel my shadow
Touch your silence,
in the dark
Sleeping at the wheel
reaching for oceans before us
for us to feel
together, tonight
Then suddenly
I hear you say
"Time to get up
It's gone midday,
Cup of tea love"
And I realise
I must have dropped off
drifted into dream before the lark
yielded to the ether of our secret world
in the dark




Edited by SteveG - September 18 2015 at 11:16
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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2015 at 21:38
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Perhaps you're confusing abstraction with lyrical surrealism. Abstractions can be "viewed" or interpreted solely by the listener. Surrealism is a warped depiction whose images are placed there by the artist. "Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye" does not, generally, relate to anyone on an emotional level. It is a formed image that my be transferred to the listener's dog but it's not an abstract phrase or sentence that provokes feelings that only resonate with the listener. Do you see what I'm getting?
 
 
Yes, the examples I gave are surreal and not the abstract language you're using. That's exactly the point. You confuse abstracts with ambiguity. Abstract refers to emotions and ideas. "Love," "passion," "thoughts," etc. "An abstract phrase or sentence that provokes feelings"— there lies your main assumption. Abstracts can be cathartic to write, but from an audience standpoint, they don't provoke much feeling without imagery to support them. You stated you were going for ambiguity, so I suggested going with ambiguous imagery rather than abstracts, which is mostly found in surrealism. "Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye" actually does relate to the listener, if "relate" means to evoke an emotion. It's an unsettling image. That's a lot more powerful than saying "I am unsettled," even if the image doesn't exactly mean anything. You can do that and a whole lot more with images far more effectively. You don't have to write surreally. You don't have to be ambiguous in the first place. But especially if you want that approach, you do have to give us details. Think of it like telling a lie. Give details and people may believe you.
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2015 at 16:18
Perhaps you're confusing abstraction with lyrical surrealism. Abstractions can be "viewed" or interpreted solely by the listener. Surrealism is a warped depiction whose images are placed there by the artist. "Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye" does not, generally, relate to anyone on an emotional level. It is a formed image that my be transferred to the listener's dog but it's not an abstract phrase or sentence that provokes feelings that only resonate with the listener. Do you see what I'm getting?
 
 


Edited by SteveG - September 17 2015 at 16:20
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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2015 at 16:04
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

There are a lot of abstracts here, but few images. I don't know what the narrator is feeling, but images would help. Abstracts can sometimes be mentioned, but, as an experiment, try writing the thing entirely in imagery and see if you can get the point across
These lyrics are, admittedly, extremely ambiguous. And that's the point. The listener is left to provide the meaning and images.
 
Every listener has emotions, feelings, past experiences and an imagination. To short change that is to short change the abilities of listener, IMHO, which short changes the song, also.
I think you miss my point. You state a lot of things outright in the poem, albeit with empty language. But they conflict and an interpretation can't be made in the first place. 

I am of the opinion that when writing something with multiple interpretations, the interpretations should be controlled. A friend of mine did that well, perhaps unintentionally, by writing a poem about a man handling a snake in a terrarium that could be read as a poem about heroin. Meaning is not so that you can tell people what to think, but to give them something to think about. If you aren't expressing a limited amount of things, you aren't expressing anything. People read into modernists some kind of semantic nihilism that isn't there. Their language is mysterious and sometimes dense with allusions that today's audience wouldn't understand, but most of them have meaning, even if they have double or triple meanings. (Surrealists are slight different story. Read the below).

But besides that, if you want to go straight for ambiguity consider The Beatles' "I Am the Walrus":

"Sitting on a cornflake, waiting for the van to come,
Corporation T-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday,
Man, you've let your face grow long."

Or Wilco's "Via Chicago":
"Where the cups are cracked and hooked
above the sink
they make me think
crumbling ladder tears don't fall they shine
down your shoulders
and crawling is screw faster lash
I blow it with kisses
I rest my head on a pillowy star
And a cracked door moon
That says I haven't gone too far."

See the trend here? Words and phrases like "feeling," "it","lie", "sit by while" are abstracts and over-familiar phrases that simply feel empty of any meaning, emotion, and viscera. If you want people to make their own interpretations, you have to give them something interesting enough to interpret. Images that may mean one thing or another, rather than abstracts that mean nothing at all. Even if you have to have some reality-bending images to properly get a feeling across. Just don't make your audience write your lyrics for you.


Edited by Polymorphia - September 17 2015 at 16:06
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2015 at 09:40
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

There are a lot of abstracts here, but few images. I don't know what the narrator is feeling, but images would help. Abstracts can sometimes be mentioned, but, as an experiment, try writing the thing entirely in imagery and see if you can get the point across
 

 

 

 

 

These lyrics are, admittedly, extremely ambiguous. And that's the point. The listener is left to provide the meaning and images.
 
Every listener has emotions, feelings, past experiences and an imagination. To short change that is to short change the abilities of listener, IMHO, which short changes the song, also.


Edited by SteveG - September 17 2015 at 09:48
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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2015 at 22:10
Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:

I think you could alter some of the words in the chorus:

My tired eyes, my weary limbs,
long to lay on
solid ground.
Poetically, that's much better, but I was trying to stick with the simplest, most speech-like language I could with that draft. Perhaps it could use more magniloquence *leaps with the grace of a faun*.

Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:


Also, shouldn't it be:

in the depths of the water below me.

And:

In places far above the ground.
I was trying to mess with the listeners sense of direction with those lines, but I can't remember why.

I've gone through several drafts since, and it's much different. Still not satisfactory, but come mid-November, I'm recording whatever I have, satisfactory or not.


Edited by Polymorphia - September 16 2015 at 22:10
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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2015 at 22:03
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I noticed that there are few introspective song lyrics here, so I cobbled this up quickly (with apologies to Dr. Seuss. LOL) just to see what you guys think about this style of songwriting, just from a lyrical perspective:
 

All those times

I let you lie

All those times

I let it go by

 

All those times

You let me believe

That this was real

And you’d never leave

 

A dream chaser you

A time waster too

And I just sat idly by

And I just sat idly by

 

All those times

That I let you think

That your teeth were perfect

And your breath was sweet

 

All those times

I let you be

So much more

Than you ever could be

 

All of those nights

Of sharing our sighs

Of feeling’s unwound

Of passions untied

Until one day it came

The thing I denied

That slam of the door

And the feelings that died

 

A dream chasing you

A dream wasted through

And I just sat idly by

And I just sat idly by

 
What's the first thing that goes through your mind when you read these lyrics?
Are they relatable? if not to you, then do think that they're relatable to someone else?
What type of music would suit these feelings?
What is the narrator feeling? Regret? Remorse? Anger? Other?
 
And finally, what would you change about these lyrics and why? 

 

 

 

There are a lot of abstracts here, but few images. I don't know what the narrator is feeling, but images would help. Abstracts can sometimes be mentioned, but, as an experiment, try writing the thing entirely in imagery and see if you can get the point across.
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2015 at 16:24
^Hmm...My wife said to stick with lyrics about gnomes. I never listen. LOL
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2015 at 18:13
I noticed that there are few introspective song lyrics here, so I cobbled this up quickly (with apologies to Dr. Seuss. LOL) just to see what you guys think about this style of songwriting, just from a lyrical perspective:
 

All those times

I let you lie

All those times

I let it go by

 

All those times

You let me believe

That this was real

And you’d never leave

 

A dream chaser you

A time waster too

And I just sat idly by

And I just sat idly by

 

All those times

That I let you think

That your teeth were perfect

And your breath was sweet

 

All those times

I let you be

So much more

Than you ever could be

 

All of those nights

Of sharing our sighs

Of feeling’s unwound

Of passions untied

Until one day it came

The thing I denied

That slam of the door

And the feelings that died

 

A dream chasing you

A dream wasted through

And I just sat idly by

And I just sat idly by

 
What's the first thing that goes through your mind when you read these lyrics?
Are they relatable? if not to you, then do think that they're relatable to someone else?
What type of music would suit these feelings?
What is the narrator feeling? Regret? Remorse? Anger? Other?
 
And finally, what would you change about these lyrics and why? 

 

 

 



Edited by SteveG - September 14 2015 at 18:59
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Points: 554 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2015 at 13:19
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

Here's an updated version of Solid Ground:
Quote
I’ve been a drifter 
in the heights 
of the waters below me. 
In places far 
away from the ground. 
Thoughts/opinions?

Also, shouldn't it be:

in the depths of the water below me.

And:

In places far above the ground.
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Points: 554 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2015 at 13:08
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

Here's an updated version of Solid Ground:
Quote
I’ve been a drifter 
in the heights 
of the waters below me. 
In places far 
away from the ground. 

Whether I’ve found sky or sea, 
my tired eyes, 
my tired limbs 
want to lay on 
solid ground. 

Euphoria chaser. Try. 
Depression eraser. Lie. 
I only want the truth. 

Whether I’ve found sky or sea, 
my tired eyes, my tired limbs 
want to lay on 
solid ground. 
Thoughts/opinions?

I think you could alter some of the words in the chorus:

My tired eyes, my weary limbs,
long to lay on
solid ground.
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2015 at 12:57
A great post from SteveG here. Too bad there's a split into two threads. Oh, well.
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Points: 3 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2015 at 04:17
[QUOTE] This is a place for songwriters and composers to share their works, advice, criticism, exercises, etc. to hone their skills for whatever they wanna do with their music.
[/QUOTE]

Classical pieces as well I guess? 

I have found a couple of pieces on the net that I am not involved with but they  deserve a lot more attention.

The best of them, Axel fugue by Matthew Brigham, is sadly no longer online.

Another  piece I really like is this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10F9vm3_b2Y
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