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Topic ClosedRock & roll will never die...
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Poll Question: Or will it?
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CPicard View Drop Down
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Points: 10841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 09:59
Maybe Rock'n'Roll SHOULD die right now. To say the truth, I'm quite fed up with all the mythology around this music.
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Points: 1754 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 09:45
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

...and if he were made of cellophane he'd be a wrapper
... or if he worked in Amazon's packing department he'd be a wrapper.
 
...or if he tested door knockers he'd be a rapper
 
...or if he lived on Easter Island he'd be a rapa
 

LOL. True enough Tongue (If he were a German worker at Amazon, he'd be a striking wrapper ;-)



Edited by jude111 - May 23 2013 at 09:47
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Points: 16913 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 09:43
Densmore is my hero in the Doors.  He's the only one who kept them from whoring their songs to the highest bidder.  Well, he and Jim. 
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 09:43
...and if he were made of cellophane he'd be a wrapper
... or if he worked in Amazon's packing department he'd be a wrapper.
 
...or if he tested door knockers he'd be a rapper
 
...or if he lived on Easter Island he'd be a rapa
 
What?
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Points: 1754 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 09:40
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

The night I saw Ray Manzarek (in the 90s), he told the audience from the stage...
 
"could we please just admit that this rap garbage is not art"
 
I wonder if he ever changed his view on that in later years....

You can bet if Jim Morrison were alive now, he'd be a rapper LOL
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Points: 16913 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 09:38
The night I saw Ray Manzarek (in the 90s), he told the audience from the stage...
 
"could we please just admit that this rap garbage is not art"
 
I wonder if he ever changed his view on that in later years....
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Points: 1754 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 09:26
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

in album sales even Metal out-sells Rap.
 
No wonder, who wants to buy a full album of Rap Dead

Ermm People who like rap. They exist somewhere in the universe.

How can anyone not like rap? Ermm 
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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 09:16
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

in album sales even Metal out-sells Rap.
 
No wonder, who wants to buy a full album of Rap Dead

Ermm People who like rap. They exist somewhere in the universe.
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Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 08:56
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

...no relation to William Blake?
William Blake: Nebuchadnezzar
 
 





William Blake is awesome.
I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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Points: 5154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 06:51
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

in album sales even Metal out-sells Rap.
 
No wonder, who wants to buy a full album of Rap Dead
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 05:14
...no relation to William Blake?
William Blake: Nebuchadnezzar
 
or Roj Blake
 
 
What?
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Points: 10841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 05:09
Uuuhh... By the way, who the hell is James Blake?
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Points: 1754 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2013 at 21:15
Originally posted by King Crimson776 King Crimson776 wrote:

You get this far, and yet can't see the logical conclusion: Music has stagnated. It's not 'the industry'. It's even more apparent in the mainstream because it has to be conservative there, but the problem is necessarily going to be there overall too. Music is more formulaic and typical everywhere, mainstream or not.

The music industry is in crisis, not because "music has stagnated," as you say (whether it has or not is beside the point), but because technology has drastically changed, and no one needs to buy music anymore.

James Blake put it quite succinctly just a month or so a go, when his new CD's sales were abysmal. From the Guardian:

`Musician James Blake thinks he knows what will happen when his second album is released tomorrow: the majority of us will download it for free. "And why wouldn't you?" The 24-year-old Londoner accepts digital piracy as a plain fact of his industry, irreversible and so embedded it's hardly worth him hand-wringing. "My label [Universal] is hoping that on 8 April you'll do the right thing and click the 'Buy' button," he says. "You should see what they're doing online just to get people to look at the 'Buy' button. I'm starting not to care, to be honest. Things are changing. The ship" – he means the music business – "isn't just going down. There are people trapped inside, bashing on the windows trying to get out." [...]

`"The pre-sales on the new album are hideous. Hideous. Everyone's waiting for it to leak." Almost as bad, he says, half of the album has been streamed or otherwise previewed online already, an effort by the label to stir interest that, absurdly, left the same label feeling cheated, as if there was no longer enough fresh material on the product Blake submitted. Concerned they'd be left like "door-to-door salesmen trying to sell doors", Universal sought to squeeze extra songs out of him. "And when you've spent a year and a half on a [10-track] album," Blake says, "you don't want to be told to write five new bonus tracks."



Edited by jude111 - May 22 2013 at 21:19
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2013 at 20:37
I hesitate to make what might seem to be a logical conclusion because I haven't nearly heard all the Western music of today, let alone all the MUSIC.  So I don't want to comment on what I don't know.  But even in the mainstream, artists like Fiona Apple or Everything Everything are quite original.  It's just that generally speaking, the mainstream is pretty stagnant and staid these days.  

Edited by rogerthat - May 22 2013 at 20:40
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Points: 2779 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2013 at 20:23
It's a mathematical certainty. Only really 'out there' genres can manage to grasp a slight amount of novelty, overall.
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Points: 1754 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2013 at 20:12
Originally posted by King Crimson776 King Crimson776 wrote:

You get this far, and yet can't see the logical conclusion: Music has stagnated. It's not 'the industry'. It's even more apparent in the mainstream because it has to be conservative there, but the problem is necessarily going to be there overall too. Music is more formulaic and typical everywhere, mainstream or not.

Wow, way off.


Edited by jude111 - May 22 2013 at 20:12
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Points: 7849 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2013 at 20:09
The metal scene is huge right now in Finland and Sweeden. Can't see it dying there anytime soon. :)
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Points: 2779 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2013 at 19:57
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

^^^  I think with a melodic (but rather annoying imo) artist like Bruno Mars topping the charts (or Adele), we can see that pop is 'back'.  But this seems to be more about reaching a point of stagnation and with no particularly gripping new developments on the mainstream, the industry is falling back on the tried and tested genres of rock and pop.  I think the game is now about listening to 'genres' and the most typical, stereotyped sound of that genre rather than artists per se.  

You get this far, and yet can't see the logical conclusion: Music has stagnated. It's not 'the industry'. It's even more apparent in the mainstream because it has to be conservative there, but the problem is necessarily going to be there overall too. Music is more formulaic and typical everywhere, mainstream or not.

I'm not surprised pop and rock are still the most popular, as they have a great, accessible form to them without being too simplistic and monotonous. However, you have to take into account that people buying rock are more often a bit older and into physical product, and are anti-piracy, and all for "supporting the artists" etc.
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2013 at 19:22
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Just come to St. Louis to witness our thriving local music scene, complete with all genres of music, rock coexisting with classical, jazz, indie, and electronic acts.  Rock and roll might have to share it's spotlight with other genres, but it's still very much alive and well.

Some places are bastions of certain kinds of music. There will always ('always' in this case being a relative term) be classical music in Vienna and Salzburg; Chicago will always have the blues, New Orleans will have jazz, Nashville will have country, and St Louis will have a bit of blues and jazz and r&r.

In the article that Dean posted, the author writes that "the performance of particular genres of music that are more popular in some larger markets, such as the US and Japan, will also be reflected on a global level because of the high share of retail sales in those markets."

Music bought in much of the world remains pirated, so the true share of the global population that listens to r&r is, I suspect, much smaller than on the graph. (In China, it's all pirated. However, Chinese love pop and they love rock, so I think if it gets sorted, rock may be secure for quite a while...) I don't know about India... Is the music mainly pirated there? India's the second most populated country in the world, yet their music isn't really reflected in the polls...?

I'm willing to bet that not a lot of people in Africa listen to r&r - whether it's the north African Arabic countries, the music hotbeds of Nigeria, Mali, Senegal, Kenya, etc. or South America, much of Asia, India...


Piracy definitely 'rules' in India and that has been the case even before the mp3 age.  At small time music stores, they would make and sell duplicate copies of albums at a lower price (and retain the legit copy to sell to anybody idealistic enough to still buy it).   Or pirated videotapes, etc.   With that said, rap/hip-hop never really took off in India barring a brief phase when Eminem seemed to get a bit of a following.   A very small percentage of population listens to Western music in India but rock/pop is definitely the biggest group within that.  There is a niche following for jazz and classical - small but well off and live shows of these genres generally attract good audiences. 


Edited by rogerthat - May 22 2013 at 20:41
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Points: 65272 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2013 at 18:09
Another thing to keep in mind is Rock, much like Hip-hop, is an entirely doable form of music, which is to say unlike Jazz, classical or Pop, it can be learned and played by those who are untrained or young.   This maintains a certain level of both product and interest in these, if you will, folk musics.   Kids will always play and be able to play rock, punk, rap, etc.
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