MASTER OF PUPPETS

King of Loss wrote: Ed_The_Dead wrote: Metallica prog... hmmmm... The problem is I hate them and can't give a opinion... In what way is Master of Puppets more prog than 7th Son of a 7th Son?(I'm Still forcing THEM in here!) Oh C'mon Metallica isn't that bad. If you want bad, I reckon you get some St. Anger

Muahaha I love St. Anger... It sucks soooo much. And Dance of Death is Great (also VERY progressive!!!)

What it seems here is that alot, if not most metal, has this 'progressive' structure, with shifting time signatures, interludes, among many other things. Basically, if it isn't pop metal (Motley Crue, White Snake etc.) than its progressive.

I guess I tend to look at metal being a bit like fusion except metal fuses classical style/structure with gritty or heavily distorted guitars. Sounds like prog to me but I feel as if metal branched off into its own genre all together.

Certif1ed wrote: Publius wrote: OK, a subject much dodged around, Lets go in all guns blazing...in terms of prog metal, what do y'all make of the Master Of Puppets album? I personally think, in terms of prog metal, that it is rather prog and is definitely an influence for many bands that are actually known as prog metal. Come on, just listen to this album! I hate thrash metal but I LOVE Master Of Puppets. The song structures are inventive, listenable and very varied. They are also of a very substantial length. Your turn! :P Even Dream Theater seem to recognise this, as they covered the album in it's entirity - and had real difficulties doing so.   It's prog metal alright. No question. Definitely. It's the best thing Metallica have ever released and a true classic of metal in general, not only prog metal. No weak track on it. Cliff Burton was a madman on bass and Kirk Hammett delivered some really tasty solos - something he'd have increasing trouble with from "And Justice..." onwards.

 

+ I think The Thing That Should Not Be is bloody awful! I don't think that large a proportion of MOP is in 4/4 though, or at least not entirely, they tend to cut short bars at the end of riffs (or 4 repeats). That's done in the title track and Damage Inc., although I can't remember offhand any others.

To call it one unchanging beat is absurd. I'm not keen on all that many Metallica songs - and I'll agree Lars is not a good or even vaguely subtle drummer, but compare Metallica to most of the '80s Bay Area and they sound like bloody Yes! (that's not to put any other bands down, I'm totally digging that sound at the moment). + Plenty of AJFA and most more recent stuff is not in the remotest bit loud - the intro and verses of "One", long sections of "To Live is to Die", the intro to the title track... surely the quiet bits are outweighed by the loud bits but there's more dynamic variation in "One" or "To Live is to Die" than there is in 21st Century Schizoid Man.

 

In essence, my view on Metallica:

A competent band who stretched thrash to new places ("progressed", if you will), with some bits I find absolutely sublime (2-3 tracks an album, roughly), lots that leave me lukewarm, and recently some completely turgid pieces of sh*t. Generally not my cup of tea, and (perhaps for that reason, but I'd like to think not) I don't feel they're at all at home on a prog site.

Master of Puppets is to incorporate fusion with progressive tendencies, but it's still largely just a thrash album with an occassional odd time signature thrown in for effect.

I will give the instrumental sections on MoP and Orion to be quite proggy, but by and large, the album is thrash metal in 4/4.

King of Loss wrote: Arioch wrote: Metallica=non prog. I totally agree with that  How is Metallica Progressive in anyway?

Only for the odd signatures.... ..

Heh, just wanted to know what kind of reception they got.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Arioch wrote: King of Loss wrote: Arioch wrote: Metallica=non prog. I totally agree with that  How is Metallica Progressive in anyway? It must be that single same unchanging beat that echoes so loudly through the speakers , that it makes your ears bleed, that makes it so progressive. unchanging??? I love those statements that show that they didn't even listen to the album.

I love those statements which refer to statements, that refer to other statements, etc.....

The only change I hear is the level of ringing in my ear at their bloody loud music.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: King of Loss wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: MANTICORE wrote: but metallica  not prog ....heavy metal. go home Heavy Metal is a dreadful label. Covers everything from Hendrix, Deep Purple and earliest Sabbath to Van Halen, Metallica, Anthrax and Meshuggah. Saying something is Heavy Metal is as meaningful as saying that something is Rock/Pop. I agree. But Hendrix and Deep Purple are not Metal.... See my thread in non-prog music about the history of metal. I hadn't thought that Hendrix was metal, but I've been told otherwise by many of the older (err... more experienced) members here. In fact, High Tide (1968) seem to be the first prog metal band.

Eh... Well it all depends on your views on such things, but oh well...