Meat-Eater or Veggi? |
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martinprog77
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 31 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2523 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 14:06 | ||
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Nothing can last
there are no second chances. Never give a day away. Always live for today. |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 10:33 | ||
Tofu is best as tofu and not a meat substitute. One of my favorites is Ma Po Bean Curd, which usually has ground pork.
Speaking of meat: Churrascaria.I've only been to this one : http://www.fireofbrazil.com/ The meat on parade is a lot of fun. Of course if you are a vegetarian you can, uhm, pig out on their "salad" bar. If you really want to shake hands with meat, go to one of their exotic meat events. Edited by Slartibartfast - November 07 2010 at 10:52 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10618 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 10:15 | ||
Fake meats are like real meats, some are better than others. I agree about the fake sausage, I put a lot of pepper and garlic salt on mine. As a mostly vegitarian, what bugs me is tofu as fake meat in stuff like spaghetti sauces etc. Tofu is fine in Asian cooking, but in Italian cooking it is just all wrong. I just make my marinera sauce without meat (mushrooms and peppers if I want), no big deal, adding ground tofu is just crazy. |
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The Neck Romancer
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 01 2010 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 10185 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 09:34 | ||
Meat rules.
I only would eat that with some salad though.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 09:17 | ||
I don't think this has been brought up in this thread before, but am interested in what people think about the meat like substitutes? I've heard some vegetarians turn their nose up at them because they are like meat and some meat lovers turn their noses up at them because they aren't real meat.
Personally I enjoy them and some, like seitan, have been around for a long time. They seem to have gotten better over the years. My only complaint is that they don't make the fake sausage patties spicy enough. But then a little hot sauce can fix a lot of things for me. Take coleslaw for instance. It's typically made sweet, which iIdon't care for. Hot sauce can do wonders to cut the sweetness. Edited by Slartibartfast - November 07 2010 at 09:18 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Billy Pilgrim
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 28 2010 Location: Austin Status: Offline Points: 1505 |
Posted: November 07 2010 at 05:25 | ||
Thank you J Locke!! |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10618 |
Posted: November 05 2010 at 12:09 | ||
Anyway, I thought the personal stories and reflections about cats/dogs/eyeballs was a lot more interesting than another tedious internet argument about vegetarianism that is going to go nowhere.
I got the feeling I have a better stomach for some weird flesh food than some of our meat eaters, although I can't match up to Moris who would probably enjoy our southern favorite, the so-called "mud bugs". |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10618 |
Posted: November 05 2010 at 11:54 | ||
I can understand that assumption because a lot of people flock to the internet to argue as a hobby, but although I have been sucked into these things in the past, I have rarely seen anyone change their mind due to an argument on the internet. Its a waste of time usually.
EDIT: I also avoid militant vegetarians like the plague, they are extremely annoying to me. Edited by Easy Money - November 05 2010 at 12:24 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: November 05 2010 at 11:46 | ||
Oh, my mistake - I assumed that by using the same statements and perspectives used by many internet vegetarians you were making similar claims.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10618 |
Posted: November 05 2010 at 11:27 | ||
If anyone thinks I'm trying to convince anyone elese to be more of a vegetarian, they are crazy I rarely argue with anyone on the internet about anything anymore, except musicological stuff occasionally.
I've suckered for some political arguments in the past, but that is a waste of time. If I talk about eating cats, dogs, eyeballs or sucking the brains and eyes out of crayfish (a southern delicacy I enjoy now and again) its just out of curiosity and my tendency to look at things from uncomfortable or unusual viewpoints. If people enjoy eating flesh, they should. I suppose the only conclusion from the cat/dog/eyeball discussion would be that meat eaters can be sensitive, complicated and finicky. As far as the beef industry goes, I'm sure there is a lot of waste in the food industry in general, and I think raising cattle is obviously one of those things. Edited by Easy Money - November 05 2010 at 11:55 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: November 05 2010 at 11:03 | ||
I have no problem with vegetarians and what they eat - it's their choice and their health so it is up to them - I'll not be judgemental, emotional or critical unless they use similar arguments first. Pets as food; gross-out naked lunch moments; heath issues and environmental impact arguments are all emotional responses that can be used as personal justifications for being a vegetarian, but they are not reliable arguments for converting or inferring criticism on omnis. Vegetarianism isn't a health diet - I can be just as healthy with including meat in my diet, often more so because my digestive system has evolved for an omnivorous diet. What my biology hasn't evolved for is the ease and frequency that I can obtain meat products and processed meat products, but that is also true of high-sugar content vegetable products and processed vegetable products.
I don't have four stomachs or the right kind of teeth, I cannot chew the cud and I don't posess a gut full of the right enzymes and bacteria to digest vast quantities of raw plant matter, my appendix works in producing some bacteria and gut flora but cannot break down cellulose - external energy and processing is required to make plants edible for humans - none of that is particularily ecological or environmentally friendly and it certainly does not have a zero carbon-footprint - decomposing plant matter of all the bits of a plant we can't, don't or won't eat releases the carbon back into the atmosphere.
The problem is not what we eat, but what we don't eat - our efficiency as growers is not matched by our efficiency as consumers, what we waste is more of a concern than what we eat and we eat less of the plants we grow than we do of the animals we farm.
This is sort-of true. Fast-food companies do not cause hunger - the grain (and by that I assume you mean all fodder crops, not just corn) is grown to feed cattle - if it wasn't used to feed cattle it wouldn't be grown at all, the land would still be forest and the people would still be hungry. It is not being grown where the people are hungry - sustaining a population on one side of the planet with food grown on the other side is a gross inefficiency and ecologically unsound.
However intensive non-grazing meat production is inefficient in terms of land usage and more expensive when compared to grazing and grazing+supplements. Grain-fed cattle are primarily used for dairy and fast food meat production and the later is (of course) part of (and the bane of) the Western diet. Growing "meat" is an inefficient use of fertile, productive arable land whereas grass grows just about anywhere there is soil and water. So low productive low-fertile land can be used to grow meat, and that is an efficient use of land and resources once the issue of water management has been addressed.
Grain is not the only fodder-crop, nor is it the most prevalent. We don't eat soya beans in appreciable quantity, but we do eat them in vast numbers processed and this processing comes in three main forms - for direct human consumption (bean curd/tofu, 'milk', protein powder, oil, meat substitute, etc); as animal fodder; as fertiliser. All of that requires resources other than just the beans themselves, all of that requires transportation over vast distances from grower, to processor to consumer and all of that requires energy. Soya production has a huge impact on the environment and is responsible for 32% of rainforest deforestation in Brazil alone. Redirecting the beans away from animal fodder into direct human consumption does not alter the overall equation or solve any of the root problems. Edited by Dean - November 05 2010 at 11:16 |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10618 |
Posted: November 05 2010 at 05:36 | ||
^ Glad to hear you are in good health, some "vegetarians" I know have terrible diets. Unless you know what you are doing, just cutting all meat out of your diet isn't necessarily going to help you.
Edited by Easy Money - November 05 2010 at 05:41 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: November 05 2010 at 03:29 | ||
I eat beef, lamb and pork in moderation as part of a balanced omnivorous diet along with fish, chicken and copious vegetables - my LDL cholesterol levels are 2.6 and have "normal" blood pressure. I am a little short for my weight - however, the two vegetarians I work alongside have worse BMIs than I. Edited by Dean - November 05 2010 at 03:30 |
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281 |
Posted: November 04 2010 at 21:29 | ||
EasyMoney: Apparently fast food companies are one of the biggest causes of hunger among people because of the colossal amount of grain they use in feeding their livestock, particularly cattle. If this grain were distributed to people world hunger would almost be wiped out.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: November 04 2010 at 20:29 | ||
You make your point as eloquently as ever, mon vieux...
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10618 |
Posted: November 04 2010 at 19:52 | ||
Actually I think Textbook got it right, raising cattle is a very wasteful way to create food. They take up a lot of space and food.
This isn't related to what Text was saying,but as an added bonus, I don't eat beef and my recent check-up had numbers easily in the upper 90 percentile or higher, cholesterol, blood pressure, weight distrubution etc. The beef industry has a lot of pals in big government here in the US. Edited by Easy Money - November 04 2010 at 20:50 |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: November 04 2010 at 18:24 | ||
I'm just your basic vore. Well, not entirely true as I like things that aren't necessarily basic.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: November 04 2010 at 18:01 | ||
You can't feed 6 billion people by foraging so no matter what we eat we are a massive ecological impact looking for somewhere to hit next. Since we have to resort to intensive farming to feed a population everything we grow buggers up the ecology of somewhere - whether we grow turnips to feed ourselves or our cattle we still need to grow the turnips. The reality for peoples living on islands or in small mainland countries is we simply cannot grow enough protein-rich vegetables to feed ourselves, but we can grow the crappy low-protein ones (like turnips) that we can then feed to animals who convert them into high-protein meat. Whether we are vegetarian or omnivore, most island nations and small mainland countries cannot grow the diversity of food that we require in our daily diet so we have to import it. The moment we have to transport any food from one country to another we take another ecological bite out of the environment, and if that bite is in the transportation of low value foods (low protein, low calorie, low energy) then the ecological impact is disproportional higher.
I couldn't possibly eat a female head... Actually I picture all my old French teachers with the drive shaft of an alternator rammed up their arrière-train so as I murder their precious language they can spin merrily in their graves providing the world with something useful in return.
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jammun
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 14 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3449 |
Posted: November 04 2010 at 15:52 | ||
Well there was that 'Faces of Death' video where the people were consuming a live monkey's brain. That's probably where I draw the line.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281 |
Posted: November 04 2010 at 15:32 | ||
Oh and having lived in China for years I've just about eaten everything. Had frog for Christmas dinner one year.
Worst thing though was, surpisingly, duck eggs. They're HORRIBLE.
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