It was the worst of times and the best of times |
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281 |
Posted: April 28 2010 at 06:18 | |||
Neither of these are prog but here are my two best examples of records that pretty much single-handedly killed my interest in a band I had previously loved for years.
Weezer - Make Believe
REM - Around The Sun
And in proggier waters, I haven't digested it fully yet but Coheed And Cambria, who were the light of my life with their 2003 and 2005 releases, may have lost me with this year's Year Of The Black Rainbow.
Also, to get back to the original post, Red by King Crimson is a masterpiece, whilst Discipline... um. hmm, yes... well if you can't say anything nice...
PS The Final Cut is a masterpiece.
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
Posted: April 28 2010 at 03:18 | |||
the problem is that the public is a lazy beast; they want what they are used to. any novelty is rejected at first. it takes some time before they respect anything new and original. sad but true. there are countless examples for that in history. sometimes you are lucky though and the public catches on immediately. but, and here is the spanner in the works: you never know in advance |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 02 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 14258 |
Posted: April 28 2010 at 00:48 | |||
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 02 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 14258 |
Posted: April 28 2010 at 00:40 | |||
hmmm Edited by AtomicCrimsonRush - April 28 2010 at 00:49 |
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Kashmir75
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 25 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1029 |
Posted: April 28 2010 at 00:09 | |||
Good call. Maiden going from one of their best albums, IMO (the ambitious concept album Seventh Son); to one of their weakest (the more stripped down No Prayer For The Dying) came to my mind straight away when I saw this topic.
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Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
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Kashmir75
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 25 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1029 |
Posted: April 28 2010 at 00:04 | |||
I actually like all of those above-mentioned DT albums. Yes, even FII. I find it uplifting.
Agreed about Queensryche. They've been on the slide since Mindcrime, IMO.
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Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
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Xanthous
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 16 2009 Location: Dayton, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 207 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 22:00 | |||
May sound crazy, but after falling in love with Tales From Topographic Oceans, I can't listen to Close To The Edge more than once a month although I believe that they are both masterpieces.
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RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 07 2008 Location: Somewhere Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 21:28 | |||
I'm so tired my brain Its like I'm drunk with sleepiness. But anywho, I'm just that guy whose here to say:
THE FINAL CUT IS THE BESTEST ALBUM OF THE 1980S. YO, OUT. DA EDIT: Greatest albums of all clymes (or is it climes?) 1. Animals 2. The Wall 3. Dark Side of the Moon 4. The Final Cut 5. Lamb Lies Down On Broadway 6. Quadrophenia 7. Selling England by the Pound 8. Wish You Were Here 9. Who's Next 10. Foxtrot (maybe) Remember I'm DRUNK with sleepiness, wasted, intoxicated, inebriated Edited by RoyFairbank - April 27 2010 at 21:35 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17965 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 15:19 | |||
If your name was Picasso, and you painted something, and someone said it is brilliant, and a year later they came back and looked at your new painting and said something like ... it's not as good ... how would you feel?
From a commercial stand point you are right. From an artistic stand point you are so wrong it's not even funny. On top of it, if my name was Picasso, I might even say something like who are you to tell me what to paint? (... and he did many times, btw!)
And this is important, when you are looking at music. What are you asking? What do you want? ... basically you just told Pink Floyd that you wanted something but that was not what you wanted. And how the heck could Pink Floyd, or anyone else, ever know what you wanted?
You see the problem?
This is the reason why I say here in this board all the time, we have to stop thinking as commercial pundits that think that we should be the definition of music and art! It's never gonna happen. You will have the biggest revolution in your hands, no different than a religious war!
Art, is about change, and about doing different things. So if you don't like "The Final Cut", all you are telling me is that Pink Floyd is not the group of men that you want, or the group of artists that you want. And I'm going to say ... good luck pal ... because what you want is in your head, and you are not capable of putting it into music or paper to go do it yourself! But you will stand up and judge others because of it? ... ohh ... and on top of it make a judgement about the time that is not how many people thought or felt at all. I happen to think that "The Final Cut" was brilliant ... and more than likely also was a part of "The Wall" but it had to be cut short because it was already too long! Well, between you and I, it was not long enough for me! Not even close!
Please place yourself in the artists shoes before you state something like that ... it is rather sad and sometimes demeaning, and this is the reason why so many of these artists have to ignore the "public" ... you wouldn't want me to tell you how to live your life would you? Or anyone else for that matter! Edited by moshkito - April 27 2010 at 15:26 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Rasvamakkara
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 01 2009 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 127 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 14:39 | |||
Evergrey: The Inner Circle -> Monday Morning Apocalypse.
The Inner Circle isn't even their best album, but it's still far superior to Monday Morning Apocalypse. Unfortunately Torn is even worse. It's pretty sad how the band that released the excellent In Search of Truth has gone down in flames so fast. Edited by Rasvamakkara - April 27 2010 at 14:39 |
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 14:08 | |||
Sorry, but you 5 starred Piper at the Gates of Dawn and 4 starred Led Zeppelin II, so I think you don't really have anti-pop taste. ;-)
I agree that Gentle Giant are sort of vocal prog pop. You may not hear Knots at a club, but it's just as repetitive as most of the music they would play there.
I like Metal Machine Music. Not enough to buy the album he recorded with John Zorn, but I'll probably download the Metal Machine Trio sets he has on his website.
I have to agree with KC, with the exception of the song Take on Me (and I'm not sure whether I like that ironically or seriously) the synths and electro drums of the '80s are inherently bad for me. They're just some of the worst ideas anybody's ever had in the music business. I think it's a generational thing. Edited by Henry Plainview - April 27 2010 at 14:13 |
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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KingCrimson250
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 29 2008 Status: Offline Points: 573 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 13:55 | |||
I dunno, maybe it's because I grew up in the 90s, but to me there is nothing that sounds worse than 80s pop. Even today on the radio when I hear some hip hop guy sample a pop song from the 80s I'm struck with how awful it is. The drum machines, the cheesy synthesizers, the over-polished vocals... It's like everything about it has been engineered to sound bad.
I hear people say a lot that Invisible Touch may not be a prog album but it is a terrific pop album. I think that IT is one of the worst pop albums I've ever heard. The unrelenting cheese is just too much for me. Maybe it's a generational thing? |
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 28 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 905 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:07 | |||
Actually there exists a lot of very creative hip hop music, you just gotta know where to look.
Some hip hop artists like Madlib are even progressive rock fans.
Yes and other prog groups were very very influenced by The Beatles, The Beach Boys, The Byrds, Simon & Garfunkel, Beat music like The Hollies and The Zombies, Tin Pan Alley and even Motown. Shucks, Pop music is actually quite important in the development of progressive rock, Moody Blues and Genesis started out as straight up pop bands.
Of course pop music is an incredibly broad musical definition. As pop has been used to describe everything from The Beach Boys to The Jesus and Mary Chain, I wouldn't just casually write off everything that's "pop". Jazz was birthed from ragtime and dixieland, which was very much considered "pop" music.
Even classical music composers like Mozart and Beethoven, some may consider them the original "pop" musicians.
So unless you hate all of that stuff, you can't be truly "antipop", almost everything has some pop in it.
No I'm totally serious. In the 80s I think she was a very strong and consistant singles artist and I'd certainly take The Immaculate Collection over most of today's pop music.
Why not? I'm not saying it's not prog, but there's a lot of pop tucked in there.
The Shulmans started out as straight up pop musicians and they once released a record so poppy that it was thought to have been recorded by The Beatles under a different name. What they did with Gentle Giant was a more sophisticated kind of pop music, combining pop sensibilities with classical ones. Progressive pop. Edited by boo boo - April 27 2010 at 12:08 |
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shockedjazz
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 12 2008 Location: Madrid (spain) Status: Offline Points: 169 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 11:01 | |||
"Fragile" less than "close to edge", good but dissapointing IMO
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shockedjazz
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 12 2008 Location: Madrid (spain) Status: Offline Points: 169 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 10:55 | |||
Well i can stand Talking Heads . I love "Remain in light". And the live versions are wonderfull.
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shockedjazz
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 12 2008 Location: Madrid (spain) Status: Offline Points: 169 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 10:51 | |||
Evrything could be creative compared to 80 pop, including rap, or coca-cola. Maybe thats the reason why i canot stand a lot Genesis material. Just the first ones, there were original compard to ¿what? to psychedelia not to mere synth pop. Everything else is decaing into mere comercialism, wich cold my heart with cliches (Material girl ¿What?), i find it almost devilish And yes, there is influences on pop and prog if you consider pop the beatles or the byrds. And, yes i have a strong antipop taste and cant stand nor of these people you said: And Gentle giant is not poppie if by poppie you mean Madonna, maybe poppie as Caravan
But anyway if there is a justification of considering Gentle giant poppie. One thing i know is a dont consider "Knots" poppie. Cant imagine how could the put that in a discotheque.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 29166 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 10:49 | |||
IQ's The Wake released in 1985 had a dark impressive beauty. Totally uncomprmising prog that almost had a punk feel to it.Best neo prog album of that era IMO.
I had so much anticipation for the next album and dear ole dear what a horrible let down. Nomzamo (1987) not only had a different singer but the dark edgy prog was now replaced by AOR glossy overload like some third rate version of Asia. There was even a love duet.
My opinion of IQ took such a dive that it was only about 10 years after that I discovered that Peter Nicholls had returned (some 5 years earlier) and they were back to making the kind of music I loved (Subterannea)
Nomzamo doesn't seem so bad now and has its moments although it still easily rates at the bottom of their album releases.
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 02 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 14258 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 10:47 | |||
hmmm..... so interesting thoughts here - but every single album is not a masterpiece take these..................... please! i reviewed them 1 star cos they were the pits
EMERSON LAKE & PALMER In the Hot Seat | review
EMERSON LAKE & PALMER Love Beach | review EMERSON LAKE & PALMER Works Vol. 2 | review HAWKWIND Masters of the Universe | review METALLICA St. Anger | review MIKE OLDFIELD The Millenium Bell | review PINK FLOYD A Collection Of Great Dance Songs | review PINK FLOYD The Final Cut | review TERA MELOS Idioms, Vol. 1 | review VANGELIS Mythodea | review RICK WAKEMAN Frost In Space | review |
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 13 2004 Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 10:15 | |||
I don't know what you guys are talking about. Every single prog album is a masterpiece.
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 28 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 905 |
Posted: April 27 2010 at 10:04 | |||
First off writing off all 80s pop doesn't fly with me, pop music is just as legitimate of a genre as any genre including prog. And I personally think pop music was better in the 80s than progressive rock was in the 80s, then again most neo prog bores me.
I'd take Thriller over Script for a Jester's Tear any day of the week.
MOST albums are horrid compared to those.
But I'm not comparing that album to those anyway, it's a different album in a different style made in a different era, why would I compare it to Ziggy Stardust or Alladin Sane?
Except for the fact that Let's Dance isn't any more pop music for the 80s than Ziggy was pop music for the 70s.
I wish proggies wouldn't be so blatantly anti-pop all the time, when all kinds of prog bands have blatant pop influences even in their "prog" material. Don't tell me Gentle Giant weren't poppy.
A lot of my favorite pop is from the 80s in particular. MJ, Prince, Talking Heads, The Police, a lot of New Wave stuff. I even like some Madonna, I won't lie.
There was some terrible pop from the 80s as with any decade (including the 60s and 70s) and as with any genre, but if you guys think Yes and Genesis were the worst of pop music in the 80s I dunno what to say, other than you need to re-jog your memory because what they did was really creative compared to some of the most generic stuff.
Jefferson Starship anyone? Edited by boo boo - April 27 2010 at 10:09 |
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