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Henry Plainview View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 22:48
Additionally, just because prog is no longer somebody's favorite music doesn't mean that there's no reason to come here. There's still plenty of music that he would still like, and there are still plenty of people to talk with about things other than prog.

roger, you shouldn't be surprised that most of us don't listen to pop music, even if a lot of us like a lot of non-prog rock.


Edited by Henry Plainview - February 21 2010 at 22:49
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 21:35
I have not noticed many prog nazis here, but maybe that's because I wasn't browsing the forum in 2006...but I haven't noticed many prog nazis anywhere on the net...especially compared to say metal nazis.  I think this has been addressed before in discussions...that prog is just a music form and one whose definition is amorphous and boundaries practically non existent, while something like metal is a cult which people identify with and therefore may get more possessive about, natural tendency.  Likewise, I have not seen much exhorting to listen to other genres of music here..maybe you peeps should seriously spend time in metal forums to get a different perspective. LOL I have, yes, seen a bit of this "X artist is better than prog" business which seems like a natural reaction to the sometimes dismissive reaction to bands/artists who may have made good music but are not prog.  I remember the guffaws when ABBA was suggested by someone...yes, they should not be suggested for a prog database, no question, but...have you, like, REALLY heard Intermezzo No.1? One is not more justifiable than the other...besides, it's the internet, it's par for the course, this forum is by and large disciplined and civil, so I don't see the problem. LOL I have noticed that most people tend to pay attention only to topics on prog music/artists which is natural and fair enough because it IS a prog forum...though it looks a bit weird when say the Stevie Wonder thread that Pessimist started struggles to get many posts...really, only so few people here are interested in the work of a very celebrated artist? I am not finding fault, please, just expressing surprise, maybe I expected something different that I shouldn't have. 

So..in a nutshell, I am not sure what the problem is. Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 20:06
You are correct that some people say things like that, but in the classical and jazz polls recently the vast majority of people voted that they love prog far more than either. I think as more and more people here have been listening to prog for longer periods of time, they are more naturally going to grow bored of it and prefer something else, especially over the big 5. That's the reason I would absolutely say that I like jazz and classical more than prog, and I imagine that's the case for anybody who has been around forever. I remember a long time ago I saw threefates say that she has listened to BSS at least once a week since it came out, and that is not something most people can do!
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Then the person either loses interest in music or discovers that there's more to music than innovation ... like substance and emotion. Smile
I wasn't aware the two were in opposition to each other. And how exactly does one define "substance"?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 17:34
I don't think I ever really stopped listening to prog since I was about I dunno, 15 or so, now stopped listening to ze non prog.
As a former PMT member I know how Teo feels about the prog metal bashing.
It's true that I prefer a lot of prog metal to say, Gentle Giant, or VdGG or Magma, as much as some might think that's blasphemy.
For the non metal side of prog, I'm more of a post rock and math rock guy than I am the more "traditional"  prog genres and again, post rock and math rock get some flack around here.

I think ultimately I don't think too deeply into whether  stuff is prog or not anymore really.
There was a time when I thought about it more and cared more, but nowadays I'm generally too busy and have more responsibilities now that I'm 21 so I can't really sit here on the internet for hours debating the merits of prog or whatever.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 17:22
Originally posted by MovingPictures07 MovingPictures07 wrote:

Originally posted by Trouserpress Trouserpress wrote:

Hmm... I haven't seen much evidence of this myself, but maybe I'm not looking in the right threads. I certainly haven't indulged in any prog-bashing round here of late (at least, not consciously), but I have posted once or twice about my changing attitudes towards prog-snobbery. Indeed, the quote in my sig was chosen to reinforce that. When I look back at some of the stuff I said on this site a few years ago when I was still in my teens I truly shudder. I could be a right little Prog-Nazi at times and it got me nowhere.


I share this sentiment; when I was first getting into music years ago, I was guilty of being a prog snob, and still only recently have I been finally eradicating the last remnants of that in my system.

There really is great music everywhere, you just have to find what you like.

I agree.

I like the fact that there are so many people with different musical tastes here, just as long as they don't feel the need to bash "lesser" music. If you don't like something, say so and get on with it, I don't care if people disagree with my opinion, but I don't want to argue about it, discussion is much nicer.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 17:17
I guess I should consider myslef luckie, there be not much prog on my shelves that I dunna enjoy.  Those who spend time bashing prog in the forums or in reviews are on the wrong site or need to find better things to do with their spare time.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 17:16
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Maybe you had me in your mind when you created the thread also? Wink In my case, whenever I put down prog (which I try not to anyway) it's also a defense against prog-nazis. When you're more in the progressive-METAL side of things than in the prog-ROCK one, you have to deal also with prog "purists" who flat-out hate any loud, heavily-distorted music with headbanging included. So I can't stress the fact enough, that enjoyment of music is very subjective and that while some may think, for example, that Zappa is the ultimate gem in the music yearbook, he bores me beyond death. 

Anyway, I've been slowly going back to my main (and first) musical love, classical music. Though this is more recent. The main reason is, then, my total rejection for prog snobs... If you really are so into listening to advanced music, go listen to 20th-21st century academic music... And stop putting down anything that doesn't sound "complex"..... And stop being jealous, also, of commercial success. 



NO!!!!WinkLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 17:14
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

The good thing: at some later point all the other genres will disappoint, too.
NO : the greats of classical music and jazz never disappoint (e.g. Fryderyk Chopin, Johann Sebastian Bach, Carlo Gesualdo, Count Basie, Cannonball Adderley, Miles Davis...). Same for blues, rock'n'roll, funk...Otherwise you just don't like music.

I fully agree (including good prog in the ".." of course). In 24 years, I've never been disappointed with the classical composers I've know for that long. And in rock, no matter when, I still get a kick out of some songs by The Doors or albums like Chaos AD (extreme metal) or some DT stuff... Good music should never disappoint you. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 17:11
Maybe you had me in your mind when you created the thread also? Wink In my case, whenever I put down prog (which I try not to anyway) it's also a defense against prog-nazis. When you're more in the progressive-METAL side of things than in the prog-ROCK one, you have to deal also with prog "purists" who flat-out hate any loud, heavily-distorted music with headbanging included. So I can't stress the fact enough, that enjoyment of music is very subjective and that while some may think, for example, that Zappa is the ultimate gem in the music yearbook, he bores me beyond death. 

Anyway, I've been slowly going back to my main (and first) musical love, classical music. Though this is more recent. The main reason is, then, my total rejection for prog snobs... If you really are so into listening to advanced music, go listen to 20th-21st century academic music... And stop putting down anything that doesn't sound "complex"..... And stop being jealous, also, of commercial success. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 15:46
Okay - Time Out.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 15:43
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

The good thing: at some later point all the other genres will disappoint, too.
NO : the greats of classical music and jazz never disappoint (e.g. Fryderyk Chopin, Johann Sebastian Bach, Carlo Gesualdo, Count Basie, Cannonball Adderley, Miles Davis...). Same for blues, rock'n'roll, funk...Otherwise you just don't like music.


OK, since I am not particularly into either jazz or classical, then I don't like music. Good to know. Now I expect someone to kick me out of the site so that I can stop polluting its atmosphere with my idiotic remarks.
Did you notice the "..." after funk ? the greats in classical, jazz, blues... and guess what, prog is included in the "..." !!!
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 15:35
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

The good thing: at some later point all the other genres will disappoint, too.
NO : the greats of classical music and jazz never disappoint (e.g. Fryderyk Chopin, Johann Sebastian Bach, Carlo Gesualdo, Count Basie, Cannonball Adderley, Miles Davis...). Same for blues, rock'n'roll, funk...Otherwise you just don't like music.


OK, since I am not particularly into either jazz or classical, then I don't like music. Good to know. Now I expect someone to kick me out of the site so that I can stop polluting its atmosphere with my idiotic remarks.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 15:32
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

The good thing: at some later point all the other genres will disappoint, too.
NO : the greats of classical music and jazz never disappoint (e.g. Fryderyk Chopin, Johann Sebastian Bach, Carlo Gesualdo, Count Basie, Cannonball Adderley, Miles Davis...). Same for blues, rock'n'roll, funk...Otherwise you just don't like music.
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 15:30
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Because our tastes are not popular or trendy
erm, wasn't prog popular in the seventies ? The fact that "krautrock" was so popular among punks (post-punk owes a lot to krautrock) says a lot.
Eh?
 
 
Yes, Prog was popular in the 70s and No, Krautrock was not popular among the punks.


Other than some punks such as Johnny Rotten in the 70's.
Some punks came out later and made such claims - Julian Cope (post punk) and J-J Burnel (psuedo-punk) are another notable couple of KR supporters - but the majority of punks were not even aware of the genre.


I know he liked Can.  Here's his top list of albums given in a 1977 interview: http://www.fodderstompf.com/ARCHIVES/REVIEWS%202/capital77.html
He has said that Sid Vicious got him into Can.

And whether Thomas was speaking in the present tense, you weren't and I was responding to your comment, so I'm a bit confused.  I didn't think the majority of punks were aware of it either.
listen to post-punk and no wave and you will understand. See the post-punk thread in PA for band names.


I'm not saying that it wasn't influential to post-punk or no-wave, I just wanted to mention that Johnny Rotten (and Sid Visious) liked Krautrock -- Can mentioned in particular (I just hadn't thought that the majority of people who listened to punk were familiar with Krautrock).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 15:28
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Here's a thought. I've seen many members who seem to be on a quest for innovation. As diverse and eclectic as Prog may be, at some point this type of listener might get bored and move on. The good thing: at some later point all the other genres will disappoint, too. Then the person either loses interest in music or discovers that there's more to music than innovation ... like substance and emotion. Smile


Spot onClap. I also believe age is a factor (and this is NOT intended in any way as a put-down towards our younger friends). This has happened to me as well - I was into prog in my early teens, then, when I turned 20, started leaning more towards heavy metal and new wave. As a matter of fact, I rediscovered prog about 10 years ago, and fully realized how varied this genre can be.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 15:19
Here's a thought. I've seen many members who seem to be on a quest for innovation. As diverse and eclectic as Prog may be, at some point this type of listener might get bored and move on. The good thing: at some later point all the other genres will disappoint, too. Then the person either loses interest in music or discovers that there's more to music than innovation ... like substance and emotion. Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:26
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Because our tastes are not popular or trendy
erm, wasn't prog popular in the seventies ? The fact that "krautrock" was so popular among punks (post-punk owes a lot to krautrock) says a lot.
Eh?
 
 
Yes, Prog was popular in the 70s and No, Krautrock was not popular among the punks.


Other than some punks such as Johnny Rotten in the 70's.
Some punks came out later and made such claims - Julian Cope (post punk) and J-J Burnel (psuedo-punk) are another notable couple of KR supporters - but the majority of punks were not even aware of the genre.


I know he liked Can.  Here's his top list of albums given in a 1977 interview: http://www.fodderstompf.com/ARCHIVES/REVIEWS%202/capital77.html
He has said that Sid Vicious got him into Can.

And whether Thomas was speaking in the present tense, you weren't and I was responding to your comment, so I'm a bit confused.  I didn't think the majority of punks were aware of it either.
listen to post-punk and no wave and you will understand. See the post-punk thread in PA for band names.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:16
I agree with the sentiments behind Raff's initial and subsequent posts. Unfortunately, such negativity and bashing is the inevitable result of such internet fora - I don't think you will ever change it, and the best thing to do, I suppose, is simply to treat it with the contempt it deserves.

On a lighter note, I suppose that this afternoon I proved myself to not be a prog neo Nazi. My son decided that it would be HIS music played on the Ipod via the home cinema system rather than that boring stuff Dad always playsWink


So, for some 90 minutes, I was treated to the delights of Robbie Williams, JLS, Black Eyed Peas, and Michael Jackson. Bliss, eh? The real point is, though, the pleasure that listening to it gives him, and surely that is the reason that all of us listen to music in the first place, that marvellous emotional reaction and pleasure that it gives us. There really is no such thing as "bad music", just different music that different people have different reactions to.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:12
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Because our tastes are not popular or trendy
erm, wasn't prog popular in the seventies ? The fact that "krautrock" was so popular among punks (post-punk owes a lot to krautrock) says a lot.
Eh?
 
 
Yes, Prog was popular in the 70s and No, Krautrock was not popular among the punks.


Other than some punks such as Johnny Rotten in the 70's.
Some punks came out later and made such claims - Julian Cope (post punk) and J-J Burnel (psuedo-punk) are another notable couple of KR supporters - but the majority of punks were not even aware of the genre.


I know he liked Can.  Here's his top list of albums given in a 1977 interview: http://www.fodderstompf.com/ARCHIVES/REVIEWS%202/capital77.html
He has said that Sid Vicious got him into Can.

And whether Thomas was speaking in the present tense, you weren't and I was responding to your comment, so I'm a bit confused.  I didn't think the majority of punks were aware of it either.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:08
I came here as a huge proghead. I barely listen to prog anymore. There are some gems that I still listen to, but most of the music I listen to now is not prog. However, I have been on this site for almost five years, I know a lot of people here, so I come here every now and then to read some of the discussions.

I don't bash prog though.
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