Why are we such bigots? (or are we?)

fighting sleep wrote: I'm not sure if this topic belongs here, but I'm wondering if I'm alone in my defense of other genres of music besides prog, particularly rap/hip-hop and country/folk music. These genres seem to take regular blows from members of this community, and the only reason I can think of to account for this is the bulk of garbage that is the mainstream music scene. However, the same applies to other genres of music. I've been listening to a lot of rap and hip hop recently, and I love what I've managed to find that I like because there is a lot of creativity in the music some of these underground and alternative artists are doing. So I pose my question to those people who don't have a problem with writing off rap or country with insulting comments; can you justify that level of bigotry with actual experience listening to the music? I'm looking for reasonable arguments against accepting these forms of music. And to the main body of the community: what do progressive rock listeners think of these genres and our attitudes toward them?

It isn't bigotry to dislike other types of music - perhaps the wrong word to use, but I do certainly loathe personally rasp/hip hop and mass produced pulp pop. To me it is like the difference between Jilly Cooper or Jackie Collins (mass produced pulp novels) to good literature. The former I hate, the latter I enjoy and relish.

That is not to say that the consumers of such stuff are automatically inferior. At the end of the day, Simon Cowell has made an absolute fortune from producing pop to millions. I might not like it, but I long ago gave up trying to fight it - probably about the same time I realised that the UK wasn't going to have the promised revolution after all

I do, though, take great exception to the misogyny that is present in much rap, present day pop videos, and hip hop. I'm not a prude, not by any stretch of the imagination, but I would like my son to grow up with a healthy respect for women, and not just see them as a fantasy piece gyrating for all and sundry to ogle.

I am just an unashamed snob when it comes to TV, music, and literature. Not a bigot, just a snob.

Now then...can someone promise me that revolution?

BLUT AUS NORD

Summoning are great! I also recommend Drudkh. 

fighting sleep wrote: I'm not sure if this topic belongs here, but I'm wondering if I'm alone in my defense of other genres of music besides prog, particularly rap/hip-hop and country/folk music. These genres seem to take regular blows from members of this community, and the only reason I can think of to account for this is the bulk of garbage that is the mainstream music scene. Nowadays it seems rare to me that rock albums composed entirely of worthwhile songs ever float to the top, especially in popular music. We have to dig deep sometimes for music that is either truly fantastic or speaks to us on a personal level. That's why this site is so great to me. However, the same applies to other genres of music. I've been listening to a lot of rap and hip hop recently, and I love what I've managed to find that I like because there is a lot of creativity in the music some of these underground and alternative artists are doing. Mike Patton has done some fantastic stuff (Peeping Tom, General Patton vs. the X-ecutioners), and so have Dalek and Atmosphere. I will continue to explore rap because there's a lot of talent that I don't think I've discovered yet. And country/folk done right is fantastic too. Willie Nelson, Bob Dylan, Wilco, Leonard Cohen; these are all praiseworthy artists. Once again, there are probably plenty of other artists that are overshadowed by the terrifying awfulness of the pop-country singers So I pose my question to those people who don't have a problem with writing off rap or country with insulting comments; can you justify that level of bigotry with actual experience listening to the music? I'm looking for reasonable arguments against accepting these forms of music. And to the main body of the community: what do progressive rock listeners think of these genres and our attitudes toward them? Feel free to move/remove this post if it doesn't quite fit in this forum.

if you can show me some rap / hip-hop that does NOT have that, in my opinion, boring underlying steady beat, I'd be quite willing to listen to it, though I must admit I dislike the way the vocals are delivered in these bands too, but that's probably because of this steady beat. I have nothing at all against the spoken word (the lyrics are usually of rap or hip-hop are usually delivered in a sprechgesang), but I dislike it when they speak in a way that totally follows the steady beat of the music. it is too predictable for my taste.
there is of course also the question if music without that steady beat could still be called rap or hip-hop, since it seems to be one of the defining elements of it

Absolutely Raff - but I'd always differentiate between Metal & prog metal; to my ears, metal means bands such as Motorhead, Priest, System Of A Down & so on.

I remember many many arguments in my youth trying to differentiate between heavy metal, heavy rock & hard rock

But that's away from the point...

Back to the original quote - I think had Fuxi meant the fans he would have said "they're loved by their fans because THEY are loud, rough and uncouth" as opposed to "they're loved by their fans because they ARE loud, rough and uncouth"

A small distinction, I know, but as I say, I could be wrong...

I could be wrong here, but I think what Fuxi was saying was not that the fans are loud, rough & uncouth, but the appeal of metal is that the music is loud, rough & uncouth.

As a long time metal fan myself, I know its raw power & agression is (when done well) a large factor in my enjoyment...

fuxi wrote: I find most metal AND rap unbearably uncouth, but that's got nothing to do with bigotry, it's inherent in those genres themselves. I mean, they're loved by their fans because ther ARE loud, rough and uncouth.

Funny, because if you met me in real life you'd find I'm not a violent person and I'm quite shy and not very talkative, let alone loud. Yet I like metal and rap.

I find most metal AND rap unbearably uncouth, but that's got nothing to do with bigotry, it's inherent in those genres themselves. I mean, they're loved by their fans because ther ARE loud, rough and uncouth.

As I don't live in the USA, I'm not much bothered by country, but I used to be suspicious of everything that was even INFLUENCED by it. Now THAT was bigotry! Age twenty, back in the days of Joy Division and the Talking Heads, I didn't want to come across as a hick. Now that I'm more than twice that old I can do what I please and I'll gladly listen to Emmylou Harris, or to acts that are (occasionally) country-inspired, like Ry Cooder or Little Feat.

True bigotry means despising Hot Chocolate, Michael Jackson or the Bee Gees because their music is "commercial". I find their best tunes irresistible and their arrangements great. Once again, this is something I'd never have admitted in 1978! But nowadays I see no reason why they should be inferior to "prog" classics like "I've seen all good people" or "Locomotive Breath". Same inventivity, same sophistication.

I DO draw the line at totally manufactured artists like Madonna or Celine Dion, though. I simply can't stand their putrid smell.

meptune wrote: I for one have been accused of being a musical biggot simply because I champion prog as my favorite genre. However, I can counter that accusation with the evidence of my record collection. I have, country, rap, disco, zydeco, pop, blues, reggae, classical, baroque, do-wop, opera, ethnic, broadway, and God only knows what else in the stacks. I just really like prog. That doesn't make me a biggot, it just says I have a preference.   On that note, I'll point out that there is a difference between preference and quality. I prefer Hostess Twinkies to fine French pastries. I would never suggest that Twinkies are of a higher quality simply on the basis of my preference. On the contrary, I know they're crap and I don't care. I simply prefer them. It's a matter of taste.