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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator
Errors & Omissions Team
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 7851
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 22:25 |
BaldFriede wrote:
Our homes definitely would be less "home" if it was all on the computer.
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I completely agree.
I know people of younger generation prefer all these PCs, iPods etc. Most of them do not care much about sound quality. There are objective reasons like the lack of money, place etc. But I'm afraid "bad habit" to listen to everything on PC will stay even when they will be able to own good sound systems and enough room for collections.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1698
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 21:00 |
Hmm... So according to this poll half the people would rather have just the album art while the other half is fine with just the music. We could save money this way and only buy half the albums we want. The ones who like the music can keep the files and as long as we sent the empty vinyl sleeves and CD cases with the artwork they'd be content.
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67407
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 10:19 |
The whole product is important, whether that includes artwork or not. The problem with downloaded albums is that I find it hard to think of them as finished products when I have to burn them on a CD and print the cover myself to have a hard copy. I would, however, gladly buy an album that was released on vinyl without a sleeve and with a blank label, since in that case there would be nothing missing from the album.
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 09:39 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
Exhibit 1:
...how many people bought that in the 70s because of the Patrick Woodruff's artwork rather than Dave Greenslade's music? (hint: lots) |
I did!!!
Beautiful.......but the exception rather than the rule.
I took mine back actually. Its such quet music and tthe crackles on the vinyl drove me nuts! Plus I thought it a wee bit boring. |
Vinyl is the only format with any value to the cover art/booklet, CDs are just too small
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Time always wins.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 05:19 |
topofsm wrote:
Rocktopus wrote:
I voted for cover and booklet, but of course the music is generally more important |
Then why would you vote for cover and booklet? Obviously it's just a poll but if music is more important then why booklet/cover?
In any event Mike, I've noticed that you've been advocating MP3 use and I think it's a good thing.
Though I can't wait till I'm in Flagstaff in a couple weeks. They have a Bookman's there where I've gotten several cheap CDs and I can never make a visit there without purchasing something, and I'm planning on a big haul from Flag. |
I voted Cover Art & Booklet, even though my main reason for buying it is the music I still believe that the packaging is part of the whole thing - the tone and style of the artwork is an important factor in my initial appreciation of the delivered product. Unlike the box that an iPod is sold in that gets discarded within days of opening it, a CD case and booklet is an inherent part that remains with the disc in perpetuity. Even on my Arcos I have the cover image stored alongside the mp3's - image recognition is a key factor in finding the next album to play for me.
While in general I wouldn't buy an album just for the cover, if in a store with £15 in my pocket and a choice of two albums to buy, the package would be the deciding factor. I don't think I would have initially bought Scenes From A Memory if Dave McKean hadn't designed the booklet - although I liked Dream Theater at that point, but wasn't a fan enough to buy everything they released - McKean's artwork was enough to persuade me to buy it on that day.
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What?
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 05:19 |
The music. If the lyrics and the "cover" art work are available online, I'm not fussed about owning the product in physical form.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 04:43 |
I'm not visiting my local thrift store as often as I used to ... I'm finding less and less albums that I would consider buying, either I already have them or they cost more than the new version (or they're in bad shape).
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 04:41 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Will books also become a virtual thing? Hopefully not. And just like I like my library I like the collection of albums on the shelves. Just think of this: When a new friend for the first time enters the place where you live, what will he, among other things, take a look at? The books and musical albums on the shelves, because they reflect an important part of the host's personality. Do you honestly think this can be replaced by having it all on the computer? I definitely know I would be missing out on something, and the question "let me have a glance at your computer to see what you read and hear" appears to be a bit daring to me. Of course manners may change in the future, but I actually like to have my personality on display for people who visit me. It definitely won't be the same if it is all on the computer.
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I think that users will simply have the bulk of their collection on their computer. It still makes sense though to keep some books, CDs or vinyl albums ... to put in a shelf, and to show to visitors. I currently have 1000 CDs ... I could give visitors a good impression of what I'm listening to by simply keeping the 100 most important ones. Preferably ones with great artwork, in digipacks instead of jewel cases.
BTW: You can also present your collection on the computer. All major music player applications allow you to manage cover art ... if I open Winamp (my player of choice) I can display my entire collection as a big tiled display of cover art. That also looks much better - and more interesting - than my CD shelf, with only the side of the CDs visible.
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Yes, but it would definitely not be the same to present the collection on the computer. And you are already compromising. Our homes definitely would be less "home" if it was all on the computer.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1698
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 04:35 |
Rocktopus wrote:
I voted for cover and booklet, but of course the music is generally more important |
Then why would you vote for cover and booklet? Obviously it's just a poll but if music is more important then why booklet/cover?
In any event Mike, I've noticed that you've been advocating MP3 use and I think it's a good thing.
Though I can't wait till I'm in Flagstaff in a couple weeks. They have a Bookman's there where I've gotten several cheap CDs and I can never make a visit there without purchasing something, and I'm planning on a big haul from Flag.
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progkidjoel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 02 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 19643
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 04:31 |
I honestly just think that owning the physical media is so much more beneficial...
I can play it out of a CD player!
For example
I recently developed a fetish for MARILLION artwork, and TBH, I'm looking at bidding on a 12" Record just for the album art today...
I bought 11 Marillion CD's in the last 3 months from eBay - I could've downloaded them from iTunes, or illegally, but I chose to buy the CD's as I prefer to own a physical media.
Don't get me wrong - its not that I'm opposed to or afraid of change, its that I feel like I'm not really paying for a proper product when I buy MP3's. I usually don't give them as much consideration, or value them as much either.
For example, I payed 19.99 USD for a Marillion: FUGAZI CD on eBay (That was before 7USD in postage to Australia) and I could've got it for around 9.99AUD on iTunes, but I wouldn't feel as though I owned the music.
And apart from that
I wouldn't be able to play it Every morning on my CD player before school...
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 04:31 |
BaldFriede wrote:
Will books also become a virtual thing? Hopefully not. And just like I like my library I like the collection of albums on the shelves. Just think of this: When a new friend for the first time enters the place where you live, what will he, among other things, take a look at? The books and musical albums on the shelves, because they reflect an important part of the host's personality. Do you honestly think this can be replaced by having it all on the computer? I definitely know I would be missing out on something, and the question "let me have a glance at your computer to see what you read and hear" appears to be a bit daring to me. Of course manners may change in the future, but I actually like to have my personality on display for people who visit me. It definitely won't be the same if it is all on the computer.
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I think that users will simply have the bulk of their collection on their computer. It still makes sense though to keep some books, CDs or vinyl albums ... to put in a shelf, and to show to visitors. I currently have 1000 CDs ... I could give visitors a good impression of what I'm listening to by simply keeping the 100 most important ones. Preferably ones with great artwork, in digipacks instead of jewel cases. BTW: You can also present your collection on the computer. All major music player applications allow you to manage cover art ... if I open Winamp (my player of choice) I can display my entire collection as a big tiled display of cover art. That also looks much better - and more interesting - than my CD shelf, with only the side of the CDs visible.
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 04:30 |
Wrong question in the poll. Make a poll with both options possible to choose. Not just one option with the answer you want. What valuable answers can you possibly get by asking rhetorical questions like this?
I
voted for cover and booklet, but of course the music is generally more
important. I buy Vinyl when its an option, bwt, and of course its about
the whole package.
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 04:29 |
I can't believe the votes are equal.
50% say the art is MORE IMPORTANT than the music.
FRankly I don't understand.
A protest vote?
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 04:27 |
topofsm wrote:
I'm confused and appalled that the vote was tied 3-3 before I voted. This is a music forum after all.
In any event, Mike, I may be one of the only people who seems to think that it's fine that album art and stuff could be left aside, as long as you're left with great music. I myself seem to prefer music that contains lyrics that are at least somewhat important, but I don't even get physical CDs every time to marvel at the magnificent artwork or read through the lyrics as I'm listening, because after all it's the music that's important. Furthermore, I think Roger Dean's artwork is incredible, but I don't have any physical copy of any albums that he did artwork on, save for my father's vinyl copy of Fragile, and that one has water damage so the first coat is coming off easily. But that doesn't matter, cause I enjoy lots of Yes music anyways.
I listen to music through an iPod dock anyways, or in the car when I'm driving so there's little need for me to have vinyls and CDs, though sometimes I'll get a cheap thrift store vinyl for something like a dollar for the collectability of it. |
Indeed, the situation is different for each album. Some albums have great artwork that is intertwined with the music. Some albums have great artwork, but it doesn't have much to do with the music at all (often the artwork is created independently from the music). And then of course there are albums where the artwork is totally unimportant. And as you said, there is the cost factor. Focussing on the music (MP3) alone allows me to buy more albums. But like you I'm also paying regular visits to my local thrift store ... when I see an album with a nice cover for a bargain price, I'll take the opportunity.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 04:11 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
I'm getting the feeling that most of you who *demand* the piece of plastic and paper component are simply used to the format so much that you can't - and don't want to - think about alternatives.
I'm sure that 20 years from now music will be a purely virtual thing ... as will be video (blu-ray is the last disc format). Amazon have shown with their Kindle that it is possible to transfer the experience of reading a book to the electronic world ... why should it be different for booklets? In the end the electronic solution will take over, because it's simply more convenient, more efficient and more elegant. If done correctly of course, but I am sure that we'll eventually see some kind of device like the Kindle, but a bit larger and with color display, and of course with one (or more) headphone plugs.
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Will books also become a virtual thing? Hopefully not. And just like I like my library I like the collection of albums on the shelves. Just think of this: When a new friend for the first time enters the place where you live, what will he, among other things, take a look at? The books and musical albums on the shelves, because they reflect an important part of the host's personality. Do you honestly think this can be replaced by having it all on the computer? I definitely know I would be missing out on something, and the question "let me have a glance at your computer to see what you read and hear" appears to be a bit daring to me. Of course manners may change in the future, but I actually like to have my personality on display for people who visit me. It definitely won't be the same if it is all on the computer.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 04:10 |
Dean wrote:
Exhibit 1:
...how many people bought that in the 70s because of the Patrick Woodruff's artwork rather than Dave Greenslade's music? (hint: lots) |
I did!!!
Beautiful.......but the exception rather than the rule.
I took mine back actually. Its such quet music and tthe crackles on the vinyl drove me nuts! Plus I thought it a wee bit boring.
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1698
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 04:07 |
I'm confused and appalled that the vote was tied 3-3 before I voted. This is a music forum after all.
In any event, Mike, I may be one of the only people who seems to think that it's fine that album art and stuff could be left aside, as long as you're left with great music. I myself seem to prefer music that contains lyrics that are at least somewhat important, but I don't even get physical CDs every time to marvel at the magnificent artwork or read through the lyrics as I'm listening, because after all it's the music that's important. Furthermore, I think Roger Dean's artwork is incredible, but I don't have any physical copy of any albums that he did artwork on, save for my father's vinyl copy of Fragile, and that one has water damage so the first coat is coming off easily. But that doesn't matter, cause I enjoy lots of Yes music anyways.
I listen to music through an iPod dock anyways, or in the car when I'm driving so there's little need for me to have vinyls and CDs, though sometimes I'll get a cheap thrift store vinyl for something like a dollar for the collectability of it.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 03:57 |
^ sure. As I said before, I prefer music over stuff to put in a shelf.
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007
Location: SanDiegoTijuana
Status: Offline
Points: 4373
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 03:52 |
Or we like getting stuff for our money.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: June 14 2009 at 03:49 |
I'm getting the feeling that most of you who *demand* the piece of plastic and paper component are simply used to the format so much that you can't - and don't want to - think about alternatives. I'm sure that 20 years from now music will be a purely virtual thing ... as will be video (blu-ray is the last disc format). Amazon have shown with their Kindle that it is possible to transfer the experience of reading a book to the electronic world ... why should it be different for booklets? In the end the electronic solution will take over, because it's simply more convenient, more efficient and more elegant. If done correctly of course, but I am sure that we'll eventually see some kind of device like the Kindle, but a bit larger and with color display, and of course with one (or more) headphone plugs.
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