Non Capitalist Government |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: May 28 2009 at 21:55 | ||
Was it Marx? I remember reading a quote once where Marx said...something along the lines of...The Russians get into everything and mess things up I don't know if Marx wanted Communism for Russia, but Lenin went and did it anyway. Albeit, in a different form from Marx |
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: May 28 2009 at 20:51 | ||
Yeppers. Capitalism was supposed to be necessary for Communism. Funny how ass-backwards Marx was. |
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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 15 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 7991 |
Posted: May 28 2009 at 19:49 | ||
Tito!
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 26 2005 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 10616 |
Posted: May 28 2009 at 12:40 | ||
A mild and friendly dictatorship with a warm, gentle, open minded dictator would be nice.
And anarchy as opposed to hierarchy, in the sense that all the rulers have been chosen by the people. That's also a way to define anarchy: in law school I had a professor who was advocating that kind of anarchy. In most countries, even the democratic ones, there are still people with power who haven't been elected by the people, like kings and queens, who do not always have a strictly symbolic function.
But I prefer the friendly dictator. Not that I know of any such man (or woman) in recent and less recent history, but hypothetically
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: May 28 2009 at 12:25 | ||
That's what I always thought, that industrialization was a necessary step prior to the dictatorship of the proletariat, or something like that (clearly I'm no expert). |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: May 28 2009 at 12:22 | ||
Difference being Hitler said he was a "true" Socialist...one that looked out for the middle/working class. The small men. I forget the name, but the original party that Hitler made into the Nazi's was founded by a locksmith. In a way...its almost true. Wasn't Communism meant for the industrial nations of Europe like England and Germany, and many felt Russia was not ready, since it was a rural nation with no industry? But yea, Hitler said a lot of things. A man of pure contradictions. |
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: May 28 2009 at 05:43 | ||
USSR WAS THE ONLY SOCIALISM |
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AlbertMond
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 27 2008 Location: Namibia Status: Offline Points: 139 |
Posted: May 28 2009 at 01:12 | ||
Hitler called himself a socialist, and he hated the commies/Stalin.
I think it's pretty clear that neither the USSR nor the National Socialist Party were actually socialist. At least not in practice.
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Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
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lucas
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 06 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 8138 |
Posted: May 28 2009 at 00:19 | ||
^
USSR = Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 07 2008 Location: Somewhere Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
Posted: May 27 2009 at 18:55 | ||
Hurrah Hurrah. You've read it?
There is an invisible thread connecting us and a great big quite visible poster of Trotsky behind me. As for the rest of you' lot. Socialism' Don't Equal Stalinism! [One suggested resource: Go to Marxists.org Then click on Trotsky Or, perhaps go to the Marxists encyclopedia] edit: that picture is too big you get the point Edited by RoyFairbank - May 27 2009 at 19:49 |
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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 15 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 7991 |
Posted: May 24 2009 at 14:10 | ||
The Revolution Betrayed should be dropped from planes over all the suburbs of North America.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: May 24 2009 at 12:22 | ||
Once again there is a big difference between any -ism in theory and any -ism in practice. Remember any -ism is always run by people, and people are dumb all over and a little ugly on the side. |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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el dingo
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2008 Location: Norwich UK Status: Offline Points: 7053 |
Posted: May 24 2009 at 08:45 | ||
Not all people in the Western World my friend - well, not me, anyway
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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lucas
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 06 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 8138 |
Posted: May 24 2009 at 08:33 | ||
^ Yes, and don't forget the famous 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia by the Soviet troops and tanks, occupation that is the result of failed negotiation to keep a strong stalinist regimen in this country. In fact, Dubcek wanted to give another turn to his county's communism, a more human face by injecting some liberalism in the harsh socialism. In Poland, a philosoph from my birth city (Przemysl), Ryszard Siwiec, went to Warsaw and self-immolated himself as a sign of protest towards the decision of the Russians. 60 were killed during this dark episode of czechoslovakian history.
In Hungary in 1956, a revolution arose against stalinism but finished in blood as the Soviets reacted violently to this affront. The following governement was even harsher than the previous one.
People in the Western world claim that communism is a beautiful concept, while people who underwent Communism in Central and Eastern Europe, as well as in other areas of the globe, fought to deliver their country from this alienating system.
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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el dingo
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2008 Location: Norwich UK Status: Offline Points: 7053 |
Posted: May 24 2009 at 06:38 | ||
This was truly an awful incident that came up as part of my Degree course. A lecturer suggested a couple of us spoke to a Polish friend whose grandfather was a victim of the Katyn forest incident and what he told us was truly harrowing and this forum is no place to discuss the detail.
To repeat what I posted earlier in the thread, voting for any one of the three abominations on offer here would be like a Turkey voting for Christmas.
At least I only studied this at University without having to live through these sort of horrors personally, so I count myself very lucky.
I have a good Czech friend who speaks in a very similar vein to you - only the circumstances were different.
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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lucas
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 06 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 8138 |
Posted: May 24 2009 at 06:24 | ||
I don't really get the point of this poll : if communism wins over the other 2 choices, would that mean that for the majority of us it is less bad than the other political systems. Communism, together with nazism, was/is (still unfortunately in some countries) the most cruel type of government. Here is the legacy of communism : goulags (= concentration camps), permanent monitoring of its citizens (in Poland, my dad was jailed for his different political views at the time of the Martial Law in the early 80's, and it's because this sh*tty communism that my parents left Poland when I was 2 y.o.) and there was a secret police (Urzad Bezpieczenstwa) that kept shutting up any opposition (a friend of my dad's was killed by them, the bishop Popieluszko was tortured and slaughtered) and a sad episode in polish history is the bloody repression of the workers who claimed better living conditions in Poznan in 1956 cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozna%C5%84_1956_protests, massive deportations of populations, massive massacre of polish army officers in Katyn - Poland, genocides in Ukraine by starvation of the population http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor and Cambodia (1,5 billion killed).
One should be really living in a bubble to ignore all these atrocities and all the disasters caused by communist dictatorships.
I don't really see why dictatorship is separated from communism, both work often hand in hand (Cuba, Russia, Romania at the time of Ceaucescu, North Corea, Cambodia).
Someone who claims communism would be a good alternative to capitalism should go and live in the current Communist countries : Cuba, North Corea or devise a time machine and wander through Russia, Poland, Cambodia, Romania...
I don't know why "anarchy" is featured here as we don't have a single country to base an analysis for comparison with capitalism-lead countries.
Another thing that is beyond me, is how Mr Ernesto Gueverra is worshipped. This guy was an assassin and wanted to spread the communism virus in latine America. I know that communist ideas are very popular among youngsters, especially those living in comfortable democracies, but praise someone who has blood on his hands is shocking (he is responsible for the execution of a hundred of police and army officers of the Batista regimen, guilty for "war crimes" (!) and created "working and rehabilitation" camps.
communism = Edited by lucas - May 24 2009 at 06:27 |
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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el dingo
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2008 Location: Norwich UK Status: Offline Points: 7053 |
Posted: May 20 2009 at 02:50 | ||
Just like some of our glorious MPs here in the UK, I hope you'd abuse your expenses big style
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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AlbertMond
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 27 2008 Location: Namibia Status: Offline Points: 139 |
Posted: May 20 2009 at 00:05 | ||
All three of these types suck massive. It's hard.
If socialism (and I don't mean that national socialist crap) were on here, there would be no contest. Sometimes I think the successful socialist model you see in parts of Canada could actually be preferable to Capitalism.
However, since it's not, I chose Communism. I guess there's always the chance that I could turn out to be one of the people making a living off of abusing such a turd-bucket system.
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Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 15 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 7991 |
Posted: May 19 2009 at 23:51 | ||
Not really. It's how many isolated, medieval communities lived.
And I can get away with gif-age because I've paid Lowtax about 15 dollars.
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BroSpence
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 05 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2614 |
Posted: May 19 2009 at 21:08 | ||
I think good anarchy and communism only work in near impossible conditions. But this is all hypothetical anyways, I went with anarchy.
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