Clouds/1-2-3

salmacis wrote:   As for improvisation and elaboration in rock, I remember hearing the original version of 'White Rabbit' by The Great Society on Dick's radio show. It has a very lengthy guitar introduction that was way ahead of its time, and is arguably even more ambitious than the Jefferson Airplane version...which I loved anyway! Perhaps The Byrds' 'Eight Miles High' is relevant here too, IMHO, with its Indian-inspired guitar lines.

I have a cassette a friend of mine made for me that has the S.B. Machine Head songs (about 5 I think) and the Artwoods and maybe something else, but I will have to look around. Thanks for the info.

Dick Heath wrote: Cert , Did you catch the 2nd episode of Jazz Britannia - about 18 months ago - on BBC4? It was argued because the old guard of British jazz musicians would not allow the new guard touch their instruments (esp the piano), the"kids" went and brought in their electric pianos, organs to play live (suggested there as the start of the UK jazz rock movement), e.g. Georgie Fame, Graham Bond (an early pioneer of the Mellotron), Brian Auger - I can only think of a young John McLaughlin being on the scene with a guitar. In addition there were keyboard lead pop/R'n'B bands: Manfred Mann, (Alan Price in) The Animals,  Stevie Winwood in the Spencer Davis Band - Ian Stewart was often called the 6th Rolling Stone and necessary to the band for his keyboard work. So there would have been experimentation from about 1962/3 - so if you are exploring pre-1967, check out some of these band's albums and hear what sort of "album-fillers" were being played.

Cert ,
Did you catch the 2nd episode of Jazz Britannia - about 18 months ago - on BBC4? It was argued because the old guard of British jazz musicians would not allow the new guard touch their instruments (esp the piano), the"kids" went and brought in their electric pianos, organs to play live (suggested there as the start of the UK jazz rock movement), e.g. Georgie Fame, Graham Bond (an early pioneer of the Mellotron), Brian Auger - I can only think of a young John McLaughlin being on the scene with a guitar. In addition there were keyboard lead pop/R'n'B bands: Manfred Mann, (Alan Price in) The Animals,  Stevie Winwood in the Spencer Davis Band - Ian Stewart was often called the 6th Rolling Stone and necessary to the band for his keyboard work. So there would have been experimentation from about 1962/3 - so if you are exploring pre-1967, check out some of these band's albums and hear what sort of "album-fillers" were being played.

I saw Clouds live three times. The first playing at a festival headlined by Jethro Tull in May 1970. They were
ok, but nothing great. Tull blew them away. Then saw them twice more at different times at the Whisky A Go Go.
They were always alot better live than on their albums. Their first album Scrapbook is a complete embarrassment.
Their second album Water Color Days is only slightly better. There is NO comparison between what Clouds was doing at the time and their contemporaries. I saw the band Quatermass around the same time as Clouds, and Peter
Robinson absolutely DROP KICKED Billy Ritchie! Ritchie is NOT even close to the same league as Emerson, Wakeman, Auger, Peter Robinson, and Vincent Crane! I've seen all of these Great Men Live and Ritchie was just ok nothing special. His claim to fame is that he says he was the first to play standing up. The Clouds Web Site is a complete EXAGGERATION!!! Just listen to Scrapbook!

Thanks Richard 

As for classical/rock fusions, one of my personal favourites is the 1967 hit by The Move, 'Night Of Fear'. I always felt 'Nutrocker' is fun but something of a novelty record (of course, it turns up at the end of ELP's 'Pictures...'), but 'Night Of Fear' turns a section from '1812 Overture' into a bona fide pop song with quintessential psychedelic lyrics. It's one of my favourite singles of all time.

I think Mr. Heath needs to check this out 

 

Certif1ed wrote:   Well, let's sum up what we know;   1. The band existed and played the Marquee at the right time and, became Clouds in 1968.   2. Clouds were featured on TWO major label promotion compilations alongside great progressive artists including King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Traffic, Nick Drake and Spooky Tooth.   3. There are numerous reports of keyboardist Billy Ritchie doing all these things live that were influential and mind-blowingly different.   4. The recordings I have listened to, even if they turn out to be later than claimed, are significantly progressive enough to warrant some attention - the music contains clear jazz and classical influences, and some really neat tricks with tempo and time signature alteration - and it rocks.   5. Everything I've read on the bands' website exaggerates somewhat - but the exaggerations seem more attention-grabbing than overly excessive.     The jury is currently out...

It reads really funny.  The testimonials on the website do seem quite attention-grabbing and freakishly specific for something with no concrete evidence of doing more than, well, existing.  Did In The Court even -have- an organ, btw? 

But in all seriousness, it feels like this:  The band can somewhat prove that it existed pre-prog.  The band had an organist, who when faced with a drummer and a bassist, most likely took the lead.  David Bowie seems to like them.

Now, there are no verifiable recordings of this group.  What recordings are surfacing are definitely suspect in origin and nature, as I understand, as well as time period. 

This band 'became' Clouds, who supposedly took a more commercial leaning because they found little success with their supposedly incredible groundbreaking prog.

What if the real story reads more like this?  1-2-3 were a decent, if relatively unmemorable psychedelic band in the late 60's, who had no official recordings, despite playing at the Marquee.  They quickly went downhill, their label regulating them to play cabarets and such.  Later influenced by proto-prog and prog acts springing up around them, they reformed as Clouds and tried their hand at this new prog style, but as evidenced by the recordings that -do- exist, they did not meet success.

This rendition also fits with the hard facts that exist, and is in all honesty much more likely.

So let's say that it's the 21st century.  Billy Ritchie is upset, because he's not even a has-been; he's a never-was.  He's looking back at 1-2-3 and Clouds and wondering where he went wrong.  After contemplating it, he realizes that there's so -little- legacy of his output that with some creative twists, he can rewrite the entire story, and become the hero to his peers who surpassed him by so far, so long ago.

Considering cloudsmusic.com is owned and run by one Billy Ritchie, I'd say that it's pretty obvious how this played out, yes? 


Edited by Man Overboard - September 27 2007 at 04:31

Certif1ed wrote:   I've been told that the stuff I've heard (a live performance of Simon and Garfunkel's "America")  was put together in 1966, and the performance was Saturday March 18th, 1967 - which would put them ahead of the Nice.     My quesion now is, if the band put the arrangement together in 1966, and performed it in March 1967, where did they get the Tardis from?   Simon and Garfunkel's "Bookends" was released on April 3rd 1968, and "America" wasn't released as a single until 1972 - the year after Yes covered it.   It's a very good cover, but...

  Hoax, confirmed?