Double-bass drumming...

BaldFriede wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Here are two videos which might provide useful insights: 1. Dave Lombardo at a drum clinic, saying some interesting things about drumming in general and then playing Slayer's Angel of Death: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQxE0plAzo 2. The full song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBW_b-WJ2us Definitely not my style of drumming. My style is a lot more relaxed. But it pretty much demonstrates what I always criticize about those bass drum staccatos: The notes blur into each other. It is like being in the alps during a thunderstorm; all those echoes keep the thunder constantly rolling. You don't hear the single thunder anymore. At first this may sound aggressive, but after a while it simply loses its effect; you don't hear anything anymore but a constant blur; you only realize the thunder when the thunderstorm suddenly stops.

Well, I don't just hear a constant blur, I can easily make out the "notes" and I could write them down in standard notation. A thunderstorm is chaotic, whereas what Lombardo plays are precise rhythms, and at the same time not computer like but with subtle nuances (groove). It's also not monotonous ... there are many breaks, a lengthy half-time section and many rhythmic variations throughout.

BTW: Of course the track showcases a lot of what you would call "metal mannerisms" ... of course I won't argue that.

One of my favourite double Bass Drum moments was from Jon Hiseman of Colloseum in his solo. What he does is a fast double bass drum roll whilst playing a slow single stroke roll on his snare. Sounds simple enough hey.........but then he simultaneously speeds up the snare roll whilst slowing down the bass drums, they meet at the same tempo in the middle until the bass drum roll is slow against the fast snare roll and then he takes it back again.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Here are two videos which might provide useful insights: 1. Dave Lombardo at a drum clinic, saying some interesting things about drumming in general and then playing Slayer's Angel of Death: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQxE0plAzo 2. The full song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBW_b-WJ2us

Definitely not my style of drumming. My style is a lot more relaxed. But it pretty much demonstrates what I always criticize about those bass drum staccatos: The notes blur into each other. It is like being in the alps during a thunderstorm; all those echoes keep the thunder constantly rolling. You don't hear the single thunder anymore. At first this may sound aggressive, but after a while it simply loses its effect; you don't hear anything anymore but a constant blur; you only realize the thunder when the thunderstorm suddenly stops.

There is a certain trick in the way you kick the bass drum that can give you the effect of a double bass drum, although not for these minute-long thunders some drummers produce with it. But it is all I need to emphasize certain parts of the bass drum. And I would feel ashamed of myself if I had to use a double bass-drum for that. On the contrary; I am glad I can juxtapose the effect with playing the hi-hat at the same time. It is hard to describe that trick but easy to demonstrate.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ they're one of my favorite bands ... you can download their two albums for free from their website.

we will probably do that. there were a few things I could criticize (keyboards a bit billowing at times, voice of singer a bit strained occasionally), but they are really minor, and I might even get used to them. certainly more along my avenue than what you usually present to me . from what I have heard I would give the music 4 stars.

and now let's all break into a paraphrase of the Who's "Tommy": "Extra! Extra! Prog-rock bonanza! BaldJean in miracle cure!"


Edited by BaldJean - March 29 2008 at 11:26

^ they're one of my favorite bands ... you can download their two albums for free from their website. 

Not all the time, only when it fits the context.

Just how is ultra-fast playing on a triggered drum testosterone-driven, I wonder? You need flexible wrists and strong feet and thighs, you certainly don't need to be 
a musclebound powerhouse. If I were to look for a 'Hemmingway of the drumkit', I'd think of Art Blakey, 
Philly Joe Jones, Marc Edwards, Khamid Drake, Milford Graves, William Hooker,
Han Bennink, Buddy Rich (obviously), Zach Hill and... Susie Ibarra. Still fairly disparate drummers.

No metal drummers here; Zach Hill would be the closest, but he's still not metal. 'Pre-trigger' metal drummers such as Mike Smith or Dave Lombardo or Mick Harris fit the bill better, but
with all due respect, they don't match the ferociousness of the above 
(except Lombardo in Fantomas,maybe).
   

MikeEnRegalia wrote: BaldJean wrote: read my post again, MIke; i never said it is not valid. it is just not valid in about 90% of the cases . and that's something I will stick to. it is a mannerism. there are other mannerisms in music (guitar players repeating the same 3 or even only 1 note over and over again, for example). there are moments when it may be artistically validated; when it happens again and again only the word "mannerism" is appropriate. Kraftprotzerei You simply don't like metal. You hate the essence of metal. You're extremely biased against it. Can't you see that? I have an idea where this bias is coming from and I'm very sorry about it, but *metal* isn't to blame for it, and I hope that there will come a time when you can make peace with this daemon.

you are wrong about that; Friede and I are not opposed to metal at all; we are opposed to a certain attitude which sadly is quite proliferate in metal. there is some metal we do like (though not much). some bands are indeed able to play tasteful metal. Ice Age for example, though we are not too fond of the singer. but at least those mannerisms we criticize are sparse with them

Just like a frog is comparable to a balcony.