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Topic ClosedWhen Prog Bands "Lose It"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 20:59
clairvoyant - I 100% agree with you on Zeppelin. However...

Genesis did change style, and at the same time totally sucked. They sucked all the way to "Calling All Stations" when the suckiness got so bad it enveloped itself and became it's own entity, a monster kept in Phil Collins' cellar. True. Honest. Evil Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 20:52
I think some people may be misinterpeting the "lose it" term.

Genesis never "lost it". They just changed their style. Say they would have continued to make prog albums, but they just ended up sucking, that would be losing it.

With that being said, Yes sorta lost it. Going For The One was a solid album, but Tormato and Drama were clearly prog attempts with some new styles mixed in but they just didn't quite turn out right. I still wouldn't say they "lost it" though.

And about Zeppelin, now way in hell is IV their last great album.

Houses of the Holy and Physical Graffiti are absolutely AMAZING albums and I personally enjoy Presence quite a lot.


Edited by clairvoyant - November 25 2006 at 20:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 20:48
I believe the general rule and limit for all bands is either roughly 10 years of great albums OR 8 to 10 studio albums of greatness (including beginning efforts). Thus:
 
Genesis: up to "Wind and Wuthering" (8 albums) OR up to "Duke" (10 albums)
 
Yes: up to "Going for the One" (8 albums) OR up to "Drama" (10 albums)
 
Gentle Giant: up to "Interview" (8) OR up to "Giant for a Day" (10)
 
Van der Graaf Generator: doesn't really qualify because of huge hiatus in the mid-seventies; however, if the three Peter Hammill solo albums during this hiatus are counted, then up to "Godbluff" (8) OR up to "World Record" (10)
 
King Crimson: up to "Discipline" (8) OR up to "Three of a Perfect Pair" (10)
 
The Residents: counting their two formally unreleased albums ("Baby Sex" and "The Warner Bros Album"), up to "Duck Stab" (8) OR up to "Mark of the Mole" (10)
 
Jethro Tull: up to "Minstrel in the Gallery" (8) OR up to "Songs from the Wood" (10)
 
Pink Floyd: disregarding "Obscured by Clouds" or "More" (take yer pick), up to "Wish You Were Here" OR up to "The Wall"
 
By these definitions, I believe that bands usually have about 8 albums allotted to them - then 2 of decline - then the rest is usually pointless. Only Captain Beefheart and Frank Zappa don't fit into these outlines well - Beefheart recorded four GREAT albums, then 2 okay ones, then 3 of crap, then 1 okay one, 1 great one, and 1 okay one (in that order). Zappa, however, cranked out so many albums I simply hesitate to examine any patterns in his quality (given I haven't listened to any past "The Grand Wazoo").
 
Try this mehod yourself on other bands; it usually holds true - and if it doesn't, then there's usually an explaination.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 19:33
I agree with most of this, but I have to disagree with Led Zeppelin IV being the last great album.

Physical Graffiti, Presence and In Through The Out Door are all amazing albums, where they explored different styles. I found Led Zeppelin I to actually be their weakest album, as they were finding their feet, I suppose, and it was all very similar.

In Through The Out Door is even, dare I say it, quite prog-y. It takes a couple of listens to really "get it", but it is great, and I would choose the three albums I listed above over I, III and IV.

And walrus - what about The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway? Genesis should have been renamed Exodus when Gabriel left.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 19:24
Genesis: from And Then There Were Three they added the pop element
Pink Floyd: after The Wall the chemistry was gone and when Roger left the trio wrote
                too many predictable songs
Tangerine Dream: in the Eighties the band gradually turned into a electronic rock-pop
                          orchestra
Rush: from Presto the magic was gone
Barclay James Harvest: from Turn Of The Tide the music became a bit too polished
                                and predictable
Yes: after Going For The One the spirit was gone
Rick Wakeman: his last interesting album was 1984
Santana: Caravanserai was his last captivating album
Led Zeppelin: IV was the last 'no fillers all killers' album
Marillion: after Fugazi the band went downwards because Fish became too dominant


Edited by erik neuteboom - November 25 2006 at 19:25
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 19:07
Embarrassed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 19:06
Yes after the Yes album? Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 18:23
Rush lost it completely after Grace Under Pressure.
carefulwiththataxe
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 18:19
Originally posted by walrus walrus wrote:

YES after  'the yes album'
GENESIS after 'foxtrot'
LED ZEPPELIN after 'IV'
BEATLES after 'Let it be'
FRANK ZAPPA after 'the mothers'
PINK FLOYD after 'syd barret'
KING CRIMSON after 'giles, giles and fripp'
DREAM THEATER just before their debut
LOL


Blasphemy! X
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 18:16
YES after  'the yes album'
GENESIS after 'foxtrot'
LED ZEPPELIN after 'IV'
BEATLES after 'Let it be'
FRANK ZAPPA after 'the mothers'
PINK FLOYD after 'syd barret'
KING CRIMSON after 'giles, giles and fripp'
DREAM THEATER just before their debut
LOL
you and whose army?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 18:12
Yes, but some of them returmn to form, as KC did with Thrak.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 18:07
I've noticed with a lot of progressive bands that early on in their career they are so great, creating classic albums, then as time goes by they end up... sucking. So my question is what bands/artists, and when, start to "lose it"?
 
Here is my list:
 
Tangerine Dream after Hyperborea
Amon Düül II after Vive la Trance
Can after Flow Motion
Brian Eno after Apollo: Atmospheres & Soundtracks
Faust after Faust IV
King Crimson after Red
Kraftwerk after Computer World (although I do own Electric Cafe. It's an okay album to listen to once in a while.)
Pink Floyd after The Wall (although I do Like Division Bell.)
 
And for non-prog:
 
The B-52's after Wild Planet
New Order after Republic
David Bowie after Lets Dance (yes I like Lets Dance Angry!)
Prince after Sign 'O' The Times
The Cure after Wish (but they are still my favorite band, and I will own all of their albums. Maybe their new album in 2007 will be a classic, you never know *shrugs*.)
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