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Bilek ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: July 05 2005 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 1484 |
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I can't help agreeing you. I always regarded Zep as a blues-dominated hard-rock band, with some prog scattered here and there. They get pretty much wild in concert, though... Actually, the first two albums (as well as some later released material from that era) show obvious psychedelic references. Check out "White Summer/Black Mountain Side" from box set, for instance...
as for Sabbath, their Bloody Sabbath album is almost entirely prog (with a strong touch of Wakey!), and I can't agree more, on your statement "bar Techn."... After Ozzy, things unfortunately got worse (prog-wise).
well; what about Led Zep off-shoot Page & Plant's first live album? it has some of the songs in your proggy list, and some more "progified" by adding a touch of "arabesque" string section! "Friends" never sounded better, IMHO! and what about the previously-bluesy "Nobody's Fault But Mine"
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!) |
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Tony R ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
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I think that Proto-Prog Metal would be more relevant to a Metal database than here.
However, never say "never"... |
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WaywardSon ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: April 23 2006 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 2537 |
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I am all for Maiden´s inclusion here (as I stated in an earlier post)
The problem is the genre in which they have been placed.
Maybe they should be whisked off to Prog Metal instead of being the only metal band in Prog Related
OR
Put into a genre of Proto Prog Metal (together with Priest and Sabbath) as they are more an influence to Prog Metal than a band with lots of Prog elements.
I am pleased to see them here but at the same time I can understand all the confusion and frustration.
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21582 |
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^ regarding your green comment: Agreed. Not every track on an album needs to be prog (prog-related) in order to make it prog (prog-related), but I'd say that it should be more than 2/3.
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Sean Trane ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20412 |
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I also thought about that! On Zep 3: If they are pure folk rock then they are not really more than prog-related. Friends might also be prog-related.
I was not really a suporter of IM's inclusion because of the emotional impact they bring, but I do admit that they had a slight case for inclusion. I'm just not sure what the Archives had to gain from it though.
Edited by Sean Trane - October 04 2006 at 08:59 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21582 |
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^ Maybe you could compile three albums of Iron Maiden songs that are prog-related ... but the problem is that they're scattered over a dozen studio albums. I agree about Led Zeppelin, although I'd add a few songs from LZ 3 (as Prog-Folk Related).
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 04 2006 at 08:45 |
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Sean Trane ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20412 |
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Zep has exactly six or seven songs that are prog: Dazed And Confused, Stairway and Battle Of Evermore, No Quarter , Rain Song, Kashmir ans Achille's Last stand >> barely an album full.
Sabbath has the first two album in their almost entirety, plus parts of the all the Ozzy albums (bar Technical Ecstasy) and the two with RJ DIO are prog-related
Maiden has three album full of tracks that are at least prog-related
Zep has not got a case, even if I love Zep.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Bilek ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: July 05 2005 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 1484 |
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I'd second that!
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!) |
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Atkingani ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: October 21 2005 Location: Terra Brasilis Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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Just saw it now, Fred... it made my day, thanks!
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Guigo
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mrdfield ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() Joined: May 27 2006 Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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I Know that I am new to this site but I am 43 yo and I have been listening to Maiden since 1980 with the release of thier first Album I do not claim to know a lot on the matters of what is and what is not prog But I have to say that Maiden have always put out very powerful and epic cds and thier lyrics to songs always have been of high calibur compared to other NWOBHM bands of the time They have been around since I belive 1975 and still are going strong I have been very intrested in seeing them added here as I belive they are more than just a NWOBHM band that has endured all these years I wonder sometimes that Should the prog metal catagory stand on its on, not under the umbrella of Prog Rock and have its on sub genres although It seems something like that may complicate the matter rather than fix it It just seems to me that Bands Like Maiden, Opeth ,Kamelot, Rhapsody of Fire, Queen, Deep Purple, and Rainbow etc probally should be in thier own catagory
Edited by mrdfield - October 03 2006 at 20:28 |
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darkshade ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: November 19 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 10964 |
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if the prog-related section were removed, Phish and a couple of other bands would have to be put somewhere else, for their music is too prog to not at least be on this site..
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Melomaniac ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4088 |
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Revolutionnary Purist Front = The N@zis of Prog
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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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theBox ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 29 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 427 |
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Where do I sign up for the Revolutionary Purist Front?????? |
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Logan ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Online Points: 37188 |
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I voted for "Don't care" but I was tempted to say YES!!! Now there's a Prog band.
I applaud the courage, and some might say audacity, of those who opted to place IM on the site (even under Prog_Related) as they must have full-well recognised how controversial it would be especially as they'd be setting a precedent (well, another brick in the wall of scorn). They weren't afraid to risk further alienating many members in the interests of progress. Whether they're sufficiently Prog-related or not is not important to me, what matters to me is that these PA guys (gods one might say) have a vision, and whether or not I agree with that vision, I totally respect that they're pursuing it and not letting ruffled feathers dissuade them, or (hopefully not) cause them to second-guess themselves. Furthermore, that it's controversial is a good thing. I like controversy as it leads to debate. Without the free exchange of ideas the experience of communication is greatly diminished. It's controversial, and so IM's inclusion has led to debate (interesting communication). WONDERFUL! Can never have enough. This is a progressive site, to be progressive one needs to push the boundaries despite what others think (that goes for all in their own way). And never let anyone discourage you, PA dudes. I know that in your hearts, at least, you knew this was the right thing to do, and that's good enough for me. BRAVO!!! Now please get Spinal Tap into the archives! ![]() |
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akin ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 06 2004 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 976 |
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The main problem in this case is not that Iron Maiden was added because of their (very scarce) prog elements.
The main problem is that there are dozens of bands (led zep, black sabbath, cream, bowie, etc.) that have more or less the same level of progressiveness (some with more progressive elements than Iron Maiden, some less, but all in almost the same level) and they were denied. So it seems that the bands under heavy discussion are added according to admins' personal tastes, not the relevance to progressive rock (or progressive music that is a term that do not add anything since it is used here only to include prog metal (prog techno, prog country are not considered)). For me no problems if IM was added, prog-related is a category to be inclusive, but I think admins should explain the users why IM was added and the other I mentioned not based on progressive elements in their music and relevance of their music in prog compared to the relevance of the other bands. |
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Andrea Cortese ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 05 2005 Status: Offline Points: 4411 |
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As I said in one of the many threads, I think IM stay well where they have been put. In prog related. I'm happy for the inclusion.
Edited by Andrea Cortese - October 03 2006 at 16:31 |
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moreitsythanyou ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: April 23 2006 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 11682 |
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I only have Brave New World and although it is a good album, it's not prog related
All I can think about is how they are on and not more worthy bands like COHEED AND CAMBRIA
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epifreak ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: September 28 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Hmm...I would have loved a "perhaps, only time may tell" option on the poll. I'm not really sure, but seeing as how I was leaning towards yes, I voted that way.
Ultimately, I go to the definition of prog-related, which seems to have eaten the term "art rock" here. I believe that because you could make a very compelling case for Maiden's inclusion, on the grounds of several prog-ish elements, they deserve a spot. On the other hand, the band rarely went too far beyond the NWOBHM sound (at least until the last couple of albums, which as I understand, are the source of most arguments in favor of addition). Ultimately, they were a metal band, who happened to show some prog elements, rather than a prog band who used metal as their medium. As such, the best Maiden could get was prog-related. Since on this vote, 6/10ths of me wanted to vote yes, and the other 4/10 wanted to abstain, I can understand either position. |
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Ricochet ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
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Yes, the Flaming Lips alright... ![]() |
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TheProgtologist ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Baltimore,Md US Status: Offline Points: 27802 |
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I was talking about The Flaming Lips...not IM. ![]() Edited by TheProgtologist - October 03 2006 at 16:13 |
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