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AtLossForWords 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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 Posted: June 14 2006 at 13:20 |
 GoldenSpiral wrote:
Symphony X has the edge over DT because they keep progressive power metal HEAVY without ever sounding 'neo-prog', as DT seems to be so fond of doing. |
Why don't we give Dream Theater credit for keeping lame power metal influence out of progressive metal? 
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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W.Chuck
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 606
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Posted: June 14 2006 at 11:12 |
Symphony X!
Their compositions are by far more interesting, there's always a harmony of the parts within every song and they have a much bigger longevity.
Of course they are pretty much a neo-classical band, with not so many Jazzier parts, but since they use different types of classic music out of various epochs I can't call it boring and furthermore their blend of metal and symphonic, classical music is just unique, imo.
Saying that SymphonyX are stuck in 4/4 rhythms is absolutely untrue, of course they use them, but in combination with A LOT OF other rhythms.
I find Dt rather boring, their metal sound is to overblown and the neo-prog influence just isn't as great as the true neo-prog bands.
AtLossforWords wrote:
The Odyssey places a novice orchestral introduction, but then shifts instantly shifts to a metal timbre never to chance. |
What's your problem with that? They are a metal band,
not a pink floyd cover group and I'm really thankfull that they didn't exceeded the first part too long, since it would be probably a lot more draggy.
I can understand that some people like Dream Theater, I don't...
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GoldenSpiral
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3839
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Posted: June 14 2006 at 08:43 |
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Symphony X has the edge over DT because they keep progressive power metal HEAVY without ever sounding 'neo-prog', as DT seems to be so fond of doing.
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bapazian
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 09 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 19
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Posted: June 14 2006 at 08:28 |
The Miracle wrote:
DT = amazing.
SymX = cheesy, overblown and boring.
William Hung = owns both.
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I agree with this though DT can be cheesy at times as well just less often (all prog metal can get cheesy i guess). I think what really kills me about symphony X is the really cheesy lyrics/vocals talking about slaying dragons and sh*t, just doesn't do it for me. Saw them live at Gigantour though and they're def more fun to hear live, same goes for DT.
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Progshrike
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 125
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Posted: June 14 2006 at 08:17 |
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I used to be a big Dream Theater fan until I went to Gigantour last year and FYE had a tent to meet the bands and get your CD signed. Dream Theater was the only band, even Dave Mustaine came out to meet people, that didn't come out to meet anyone. You could get your CD signed but they did it backstage. I lost a lot of respect for DT over this. Then after the show we got to hang around by the buses, a buddy of mine is good friends with Megadeth's sound guy, and Russ Allen stood and talked to us for over an hour. He was one of the coolest people I've met and I walked away a lot bigger SymX fan. By the way DT was nowhere to be found after the show.
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Did you ever think for yourself? Just once,did you ever think? That's all I want to know>
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Time-Machinist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2006
Location: Museum
Status: Offline
Points: 182
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Posted: June 14 2006 at 07:50 |
Labrie vs. Allen? No DT fanboy must not cross the line! Trust your ears, not your "D.T. is better than everything" judgement!
1-They use different vocal techniques, and it is not very proper to compare them.
2-Allen obviously does what he does far more better than Labrie...
3-As a glam influenced vocalist, can Labrie be better than John West? Of course nooo!
Edited by Time-Machinist - June 14 2006 at 07:50
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dagrush
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 537
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Posted: June 14 2006 at 01:19 |
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DT
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: June 14 2006 at 00:40 |
chamberry wrote:
Dream Theater has an edge in Symphony X in everything, But Symphony X is a good band also. . . just not as good as DT |
Well said!
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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chamberry
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 24 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
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Points: 9008
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Posted: June 14 2006 at 00:26 |
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Dream Theater has an edge in Symphony X in everything, But Symphony X is a good band also. . . just not as good as DT
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Jeff Schu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 394
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Posted: June 14 2006 at 00:10 |
Into_Oblivion wrote:
I Highly Disagree with Atlossforwords. Russel Allens Vocals definently kicks James LaBrie in the balls. I also agree with Walrus 333 that Romeo is definently better at guitar than petrucci. And i think DT has the upper hand on Keyboards,Bass, And Drums. It really makes me mad when people act like DT is SUPERIOR to all other Prog-Metal Bands and that is very untrue. |
Romeo may have the slight edge in sheer chops but Petrucci has him beat in versatility by a long shot.
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Bj-1
Special Collaborator
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Joined: June 04 2005
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Posted: June 13 2006 at 23:58 |
Symphony X = Great, But I like DT slightly better. Meshuggah PWNS'em both though 
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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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Into_Oblivion
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 13 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 44
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Posted: June 13 2006 at 23:58 |
I Highly Disagree with Atlossforwords. Russel Allens Vocals definently kicks James LaBrie in the balls. I also agree with Walrus 333 that Romeo is definently better at guitar than petrucci. And i think DT has the upper hand on Keyboards,Bass, And Drums. It really makes me mad when people act like DT is SUPERIOR to all other Prog-Metal Bands and that is very untrue.
Edited by Into_Oblivion - June 14 2006 at 00:00
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I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule.
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walrus333
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 286
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Posted: June 13 2006 at 23:45 |
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Miller at least is pretty good, however if you will notice i had Myung winning that. Labrie might be more technically better but his voice is whiney and he cant hit pitches live. Romeo has a better metal voice. yes Petrucci had some great stuff on IanW as well as on WDADU and Awake and yes Stream of Consciousness is a great song (one of the few things past SFAM I like by them.) But nowadays he doesnt say anything on the guitar he just shows how fast he can paly. Dont get me wrong I love technical ability, better to have it then not have it. But technical ability for its own sake is pointless, you have to use to say create atmosphere, emotion etc. not that Romeo is great at that either but he says rudimentary things on his guitar, Petrucci says nothing. Im sure Romeo cant touch Petrucci shredding on Dance Of Eternity, but shredding is overrated and many a times unnecassary. just out of curiosity do you prefer the band Thergothon, or the CD 6 degress of Inner Turbulence?
Edited by walrus333 - June 13 2006 at 23:46
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If anyone knows where I can get a copy of some Flute and Voice (Indo-Prog/Raga Rock) albums please PM me! Many thanks!
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: June 13 2006 at 23:32 |
walrus333 wrote:
Vocals Labrie vs. Allen - Allen wins without a doubt I think everyone but the fanboys (even some of them perhaps) can agree that Labrie sucks.
Guitar Petrucci vs. Romeo - Romeo wins, yes Petrucci is probably slightly technically better but he is a total w**ker WHEE LOOK AT HOW FAST I CAN PLAY MY SCALES MOMMY!!! Not that Romeo is devoid of w**king but I think its slightly les
Keyboard: Moore/Sherinian/Rudess vs. Pinnella - DT wins, I think Moore might be the best overall prog-metal keyboardist, after he left DT started going downhill Pinnella doesnt do nearly as much for Symphony X though he is undoubtably good. Sherinians work with DT and Rudess dont do much for me.
Bass: Myung vs. Miller/Lepond - again all thee are quite good, im gonna say Myung is a bit better.
Drums: Portnoy vs. Rullo - Portnoy without a doubt.
Composition/Influence - DT has much more influence, and in their prime (with Moore) better compositions, but nowadays Symphony X is better. Overall ill go with DT
DT wins slightly by this account |
Actually I have to disagree with you on every account you believe Symphony X has the edge. 
James LaBrie's performance on Images and Words blows anything from Russell Allen away. Actually, Russell Allen's best performance isn't even with Symphony X. It's with Ayreon on Dawn of a Million Souls. Allen's voice is too gruff. He sounds like he can beat a listener up by merely singing at him. Allen has operatic training, but he doesn't refine his tools. James LaBrie in the studio showcases more range, sustains notes in tune better, and enunciates better. James LaBrie's vocal harmonies on Images and Words and Scenes From a Memory are also superior to Allen's primarily single track style.
LaBrie also has the ability to sing ballads, Allen's ballad vocals are essentially there just for a vocal element. Allen can't make a song like Wait For Sleep, Space Dye Vest, or Vacant come for form. He's just too agressive.
Petrucci is not a mindless w**ker. He has carried as many catchy melodies for the band as shred unisons and solos. Romeo can't play with the passion that Petrucci does on The Spirit Carries On. Romeo can't shread like Petrucci does on Dance of Eternity. Romeo can't compose the chordal guitar harmony Petrucci does on stream of conciusness. Don't even get me started on overdubs.
Myung absolutely blows Miller and LePond away on bass. Miller and LePond sound more like generic metal musicians with tapping skills. Myung sounds like a full fledged player.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Jeff Schu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 394
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Posted: June 13 2006 at 23:32 |
walrus333 wrote:
Vocals Labrie vs. Allen - Allen wins without a doubt I think everyone but the fanboys (even some of them perhaps) can agree that Labrie sucks.
Allen wins but not by as much as you think.
Guitar Petrucci vs. Romeo - Romeo wins, yes Petrucci is probably slightly technically better but he is a total w**ker WHEE LOOK AT HOW FAST I CAN PLAY MY SCALES MOMMY!!! Not that Romeo is devoid of w**king but I think its slightly les
This is a very close on Romeo probably has a slight edge in tech but Petrucci is wayyyyyy more versatile and plays in a much wider array of styles to say that he's a meer w**ker is foolish and Romeo is much much more prone to the "playing as fast as I can syndrome" than Petrucci is IMO. For that I give it to Petrucci only slightly.
Keyboard: Moore/Sherinian/Rudess vs. Pinnella - DT wins, I think Moore might be the best overall prog-metal keyboardist, after he left DT started going downhill Pinnella doesnt do nearly as much for Symphony X though he is undoubtably good. Sherinians work with DT and Rudess dont do much for me.
Dream Theater dominates keyboards and as much as I like Pinnella is allways Romeo who steals the show (or hogs it)... To say Kevin Moore is the best overall Prog-Metal keyboardist is dumb and why do I say this???... "Rudess" Metropolis Pt II: Scenes From a Memory should be proof of that not to mention he slaughters Moore in all criteria Tech, Creativity, Versatility and Originality... Rudess is a Keyboard GOD!!! and I'm not exaggerating that claim.
Bass: Myung vs. Miller/Lepond - again all thee are quite good, im gonna say Myung is a bit better.
Another close one but this one is really between Myung and Miller both extraordinary bassists. Pretty much a Tie.
Drums: Portnoy vs. Rullo - Portnoy without a doubt.
Ditto, Though Rullo is pretty underrated.
Composition/Influence - DT has much more influence, and in their prime (with Moore) better compositions, but nowadays Symphony X is better. Overall ill go with DT
DT wins slightly by this account
Influence is definately DT and Composition is pretty subjective so I'll stay out of that one.
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: June 13 2006 at 23:23 |
king volta wrote:
this has been done at least 8 times, and each time i've voted symphony x--and that's not about to change now. i find dream theater rather dull/uninspiring (except for a few tracks on Train of Thought--that's their only album i actually enjoy [and i'll probably be told off by DTFan#1 for that...and all the other numbers]).
Symphony X i find much more emotionally rousing, with their backing choir arrangements and more intense metal compositions. V: TNMS is a wonderful achievement... |
...And here it is!!!
Let me start out by saying that Symphony X has never done an album with the creative ambition of Dream Theater's Scenes From a Memory, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, and Awake. Symphony X has never been able to pull off the structure and depth to their shorter songs or epics.
Dream Theater consistently does more interesting things with time signatures, key signatures, timbre, and the structure of their epics.
Symphony X has never written a piece with the structrual depth of Octavarium. Both of Symphony X's epics the Divine Wings of Tragedy and the Odyssey fail to change timbre. The Odyssey places a novice orchestral introduction, but then shifts instantly shifts to a metal timbre never to chance. Octavarium shifts through a psychodelic keyboard intro, soft melancholic prog, almost neo-prog, technical instrumental, metal, and professionally orchestrated timbres.
Dream Theater is also much more creative than Symphony X with chordal harmony. Neither Dream Theater or Symphony X have amazing harmony between instruments, but unlike Symphony X, Dream Theater experiments with different types of chord structures. This comes from the jazzy touches Dream Theater has. Symphony X's strict metal roots limit them from exploring modes and other forms of diatonic harmony. Major and minor triads along with root fifth chords are Symphony X's only harmonic tool.
The rythymnic element of Symphony X doesn't even stand a chance against Dream Theater. Symphony X primarily sticks to basic 4/4 rythymns. Dream Theater is not afraid to shift between 4/4, 3/4, 5/4, 11/4, 6/8, 7/8, 14/16, and 15/16 signatures. The bass playing and drumming in Symphony X also lack creativity. John Myung supports melodies in ways Mike LePond just doesn't have the abiity. Jason Rullo just doesn't have the flair for the dramatic or the solo capabilities Portnoy has.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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walrus333
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 286
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Posted: June 13 2006 at 23:13 |
Vocals Labrie vs. Allen - Allen wins without a doubt I think everyone but the fanboys (even some of them perhaps) can agree that Labrie sucks.
Guitar Petrucci vs. Romeo - Romeo wins, yes Petrucci is probably slightly technically better but he is a total w**ker WHEE LOOK AT HOW FAST I CAN PLAY MY SCALES MOMMY!!! Not that Romeo is devoid of w**king but I think its slightly les
Keyboard: Moore/Sherinian/Rudess vs. Pinnella - DT wins, I think Moore might be the best overall prog-metal keyboardist, after he left DT started going downhill Pinnella doesnt do nearly as much for Symphony X though he is undoubtably good. Sherinians work with DT and Rudess dont do much for me.
Bass: Myung vs. Miller/Lepond - again all thee are quite good, im gonna say Myung is a bit better.
Drums: Portnoy vs. Rullo - Portnoy without a doubt.
Composition/Influence - DT has much more influence, and in their prime (with Moore) better compositions, but nowadays Symphony X is better. Overall ill go with DT
DT wins slightly by this account
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If anyone knows where I can get a copy of some Flute and Voice (Indo-Prog/Raga Rock) albums please PM me! Many thanks!
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Jeff Schu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 394
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Posted: June 13 2006 at 23:07 |
micky wrote:
Symphony X for micky....
really liked the little I've heard from them..
really disliked the 5 or 6 songs I've heard from Dream Theater... though I did buy an album from them yesterday.. so I'll give them a fair shot.
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Did I just see that???  ... Mikey bought a Dream Theater album???  Which album??? 
I'm betting on Images & Words (1992) or possibly though not as likely Metropolis Pt II: Scenes From a Memory (1999)...
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This ought to be good .
Edited by Jeff Schu - June 13 2006 at 23:08
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Figglesnout
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
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Posted: June 13 2006 at 22:52 |
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^^^Agreed.
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I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46838
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Posted: June 13 2006 at 22:36 |
The Miracle wrote:
DT = amazing.
SymX = cheesy, overblown and boring.
William Hung = owns both.
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hahahhah
*micky ponders the age old question.... castration or a hole in the head*
William Hung > Moonchild > Dream Theater
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Dream Theater or Symphony X
