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omphaloskepsis 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Online
Points: 6811
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 Posted: January 25 2018 at 08:13 |
Blacksword said,
"The devil will be in the detail, and it's not all about taxes and unemployment stats (which are routinely cooked by all governments anyway)
Good point Blacksword! How true.
However, I've studied the new Tax reform. My Husband and my Taxes will go down 1800 dollars.
Over 80% of Americans taxes will go down. You can crunch the numbers and see it for yourself. However, states with high state income tax like California will not see as huge a drop in taxes as states with low state taxes because you can't write your state taxes off with the new laws.
Business taxes drop from 35% to 21%. This includes Mom and Pop business. Already this has caused many companies to give bonuses, raise wages, and hire new employees. ( Of course that would be difficult to prove via "Cause and Effect", however many companies such as AT&T claim that's why they rewarded employees.)
Progarchive American members could check to see if their taxes go up or down. That would surely be enlightening. I certainly hope every American Progarchive member sees a drop in income taxes. In my opinion, that would be a good thing.
Because Trump did away with the Obamacare mandate penalty. I was able to get health insurance from a private company and save $5200. So when I add my tax savings to health insurance savings my family will have an extra $7000 dollars this year.
Another interesting tax reform fact. You can only write off $10,000 dollars in Property taxes. Before tax reform you could write off millions. So, even though millionaires and billionaires tax rates drop, that's at least partially balanced out, if they own millions of dollars in property.
Edited by omphaloskepsis - January 25 2018 at 08:19
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progaardvark
Special Collaborator
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 52782
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Posted: January 25 2018 at 06:13 |
A lot of those economic numbers are trends that started in the middle of the Obama years. Giving Trump credit for them is wrong or premature at this point. And comparing just their first year of national debt when Obama inherited a mess and Trump inherited a recovering economy is what we call "cherry-picking." Once Trump gets his first budget in place, we'll start seeing where this goes. With less revenue coming in, we all know the Republicans are going to aim for our safety nets to try to balance this. Their past record suggests they'll just balloon the debt (recall Reagan and Bush Jr.) and it will be up to the Dems (yet again) to bring the debt back down.
I can understand tax relief for small businesses. I cannot understand it for companies that make billions in profits. A better way to make taxation fair for corporations is to implement a progressive system like it is for individuals. You make a sh*tload of money, you contribute more to the country. You own a business and are just getting by, then you need help. And trickle-down economics is a myth. It was tried by Reagan/Bush, then again by Bush Jr. They made this sound like the "messiah" of economics, but it failed to produce those giant numbers they expected. We had better job growth under Clinton and Obama when the tax rates were higher on rich people.
And to top it off, the first time a single party is in control of the House, Senate, and the Presidency and the government shuts down! Republicans are boneheads. |
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20436
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Posted: January 25 2018 at 04:47 |
 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
A dangerous clown |
Mmmmhhh!!!... I'd tend to think that Boris Johnson is a clown .... I mean Bojo the Clown, right?? Donald "Duck" Trump is more of an arsehole type.
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Tillerman88
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 31 2015
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 495
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Posted: January 25 2018 at 03:01 |
^Good point. In fact, a global (let us say) phenomenon that only helps increasing the harmful 'polarizing effect'...
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The overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis restrains people from rewinding the news record archives to refresh their memories...
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: January 25 2018 at 02:35 |
omphaloskepsis wrote:
I totally understand folks have bad Feelings toward Trump. Folks may feel Trump is Vulgar. So be it. However economic Facts cast Trump in a different light. Facts suggest Trump is good for American Economy.
Almost everyone's Taxes Drop. Trump doubled child tax credits, so that a couple making 60k with 2 children will pay ZERO taxes.
The US Stock Market set records for breaking records.
The Hispanic unemployment rate is at an All time low. The Black unemployment rate is at a 18 year low.
During Trump's first year the National Debt went up 500 Billion Dollars. During Obama's first year the National Debt went up 1700 Billion Dollars.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current |
The devil will be in the detail, and it's not all about taxes and unemployment stats (which are routinely cooked by all governments anyway) In the UK, for example, unempoloyment is at a 30 year low, and yet the wealth gap is wider than ever, wages have stagnated and the cost of living continues to rise. Record numbers of people IN EMPLOYMENT rely on welfare packages to supplement income, or the use of foodbanks to get by, because the jobs created pay peanuts, and are often temporary and/or part time. Actual wealth is still only being generated for a small number of people. That's how it;s been in the US and Europe for a long time now. That's not going to change because of Trump.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Online
Points: 6811
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 15:27 |
I totally understand folks have bad Feelings toward Trump. Folks may feel Trump is Vulgar. So be it. However economic Facts cast Trump in a different light. Facts suggest Trump is good for American Economy.
Almost everyone's Taxes Drop. Trump doubled child tax credits, so that a couple making 60k with 2 children will pay ZERO taxes.
The US Stock Market set records for breaking records.
The Hispanic unemployment rate is at an All time low. The Black unemployment rate is at a 18 year low.
During Trump's first year the National Debt went up 500 Billion Dollars. During Obama's first year the National Debt went up 1700 Billion Dollars.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current
Edited by omphaloskepsis - January 24 2018 at 15:51
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 14:27 |
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A dangerous clown
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65684
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 13:58 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Well, he refused to show his tax return for the presidential elections, not only because he never thought he'd actually win (and he didn't in terms of votes, since Hillary had 2M more votes than him), but also because he was 650M in the red. Had that report been public, he probably would've been ousted by super Tuesday or May./June |
No he probably wouldn't have been ousted by June had that happened. That's the real conundrum.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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progaardvark
Special Collaborator
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 52782
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 10:24 |
^I agree completely with the way scientists are being treated by this administration. It's terrible. On the flip side, it has motivated some scientists to run for office. The Obama Administration had some good people, but they always ran into the wall of knuckleheads from the Republican Party. There was a day in this country when science policy was based on the best available information and BOTH parties were agreeable with this. That times seems like it was such a long, long time ago.
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 07:31 |
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Oh yeah--and fighting scientists and environmentalists while (Democrat) California burns, trying to go back to a glorious coal burning past (missing out on a burgeoning green economy). That's insignificant too, of course.
I think he'd make more significant changes if he could, but he has some pretty significant resistance.
Note that I attack Trump, not his supporters or victims of his con artist, snake oil populism. Still, I know that to counter another's ideas or chosen leader hits very close to the person himself, so my apologies. I guess that is very hard to avoid, and why politics is seen as a topic unfit for "polite society."
I also understand that Americans get very emotional about this subject--they are far more invested in it than the rest of us, America's global impact notwithstanding.
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 07:13 |
So, Vompatti, attacking the press as "the enemy of the people" (and thus encouraging vigilante attacks upon the real people in the press), attacking the judiciary, attacking the FBI and CIA, stirring up Palestinian rage, pointing the finger of fear and anger at Hispanics as "the other," putting your family in the Whitehouse as if they are royalty, and cozying up to America's biggest enemy and the most powerful dictator in the world are insignificant political changes? 
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 06:58 |
Tapfret wrote:
He may be an unhinged, delusional misogynist, but at least he is the model of physical health and successfully built that wall between the US and Puerto Rico. |
Ah yes--the healthful late-night cheeseburgers and KFC dietary regimen.  And them Peurto Ricans are kind of dusky, aren't they, like Mexicans, or even those other Hispanic island dwellers, the commie Cubans? They don't need electricity--they only got it (from us) like, yesterday, and probably waste it for blasting their crazy music when they should be in bed resting for tomorrow's cleaning the beaches for us. Darkness, raw veggies, and melted ice cream build character! 
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 06:40 |
zachfive wrote:
A good place to take this conversation would be to talk about how bad the electoral college is and what we can do to fix it or get a new system. At the very least we need to get rid of this gerrymandering BS.
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Well, that is a conversation for Americans, obviously--no one else can or should make that change happen. That was not the purpose of this thread. (Anyone is free to start such a thread, though.) This thread had one simple purpose: faced with a daily barrage of American voices on the subject from CNN (who don't seek out many opinions from outside) I just wanted to hear from some folks from overseas, and I have convenient access to some smart, thoughtful ones here. US politics has a global impact, so I wanted to get a better sense of how various countries and peoples are responding to the current administration. I got the ball rolling with my strong feelings on it, but diverse opinions are welcome--I'm not here to pick a fight or tell people they are wrong. Thanks for your input! 
Edited by Peter - January 24 2018 at 06:43
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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progaardvark
Special Collaborator
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 52782
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 06:37 |
omphaloskepsis wrote:
It's a FISA judge rebuking FBI and NSA for weaponized FISA Warrant to spy on Presidential campaign. The Memo is dated April of last year but it was declassified a few hours ago. A FISA warrant is for spying on Foreigners and never Americans. The F in FISA stands for Foreign. The "Target" mentioned over and over in the Memo is the Trump Campaign.
Apparently the FBI presented fake evidence to FISA court 3 times and was turned down twice by a Judge Contreras before the FBI went before another FISA judge with fake evidence and finally got a secret FISA warrant to spy on Trump's presidential campaign. Although redacted in the memo, the evidence was collected by a company named Fusion GPS. Hillary Clinton thru her lawyer gave Fusion GPS 11 million dollars to come up with dirt on Trump and present it to FISA court. However, Fusion GPS made up fake evidence and gave it to FBI. The Department of Justice is also implicated. It seems the wife of "Bruce Ohr", second in charge of DOJ, worked for Fusion GPS. Because of space and time, I'm barely scraping the surface the entire story. The names are redacted but you can read the dates. Notice the September 2016 dates.
Also there is a bigger bombshell memo...A 4 page Memo which will probably be released next week. I have a friend who is close to the situation and from what I hear the 4 page memo is HUGE and will change the political landscape of America for a long time. If what I hear is true then high officials in FBI, NSA and DOJ will be indicted and may go to prison.
Start at page 69 and read to end....https://www.scribd.com/document/369818480/2016-Cert-FISC-Memo-Opin-Order-Apr-2017#fullscreen&from_embed
And then there is the evidence implicating a FBI soft coup against President Trump by 2nd in charge of FBI Andrew McCabe, Chief of the Counterespionage Section of FBI Peter Strzok and his FBI mistress Lisa Page. Thousands of text messages clearly implicate the threesome. However, 5 months of text messages are missing. From December 2016 till the very day the Mueller investigation started. I wonder if the IRS will lose 5 months of American's info? |
Can you please explain how you came to your conclusions noted above with reference to the link to the memorandum from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court? I don't see any references to any of the claims you have made addressed in this document.
I'm also curious as to the description given in the left panel: "Description: EXCLUSIVE to Infowars: Secret FISA MEMO"
You do realize that Alex Jones is a nut?
Edited by progaardvark - January 24 2018 at 06:39
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions
|
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20436
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 06:00 |
Blacksword wrote:
chopper wrote:
Some of the stuff he puts on Twitter is unbelievable. I also liked the mental test he passed in which he had to tell the time and identify a lion.What I'm wondering is - is he really as stupid as he appears to be? (A bit like Boris really). |
Depends how you measure stupid. He's run big businesses with varying degrees of success over the years, so he must have something between his ears. That's not automatically a qualification to run a country, of course. I'm inclined to think he's merely a charmless, crass arsehole who doesn't give a sh*t what people think, has no social skills and an enormous fragile ego from a lifetime of getting what he wants. For that reason alone he is unsuitable for the top job. That is self evident IMO.
People forget, he was voted into power not by an overwhelming majority of American people, but thanks to the electoral college votes. There was no mass appetite for change as his fanboys would claim; merely a mistrust of Hillary Clinton; for good reason IMO. Had the dems fielded a better candidate they would have won, but such is their vanity and desperation to shoehorn any woman into office to affirm their PC credentials, they blew it, then acted all shocked and hurt afterwards. |
Largely agree with Andy, here. Well, he refused to show his tax return for the presidential elections, not only because he never thought he'd actually win (and he didn't in terms of votes, since Hillary had 2M more votes than him), but also because he was 650M in the red. Had that report been public, he probably would've been ousted by super Tuesday or May./June However, some experts on the continent are also changing their opinions about him, saying that he's definitely not stupid... He's averagely intelligent, extremely arrogant but he's totally wreckless (he doesn't care what people think) and keeps fleeing forward (and the US Presidency is a mean of that constant run forward)
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 05:09 |
Atavachron wrote:
Yeah I don't think the Dems would've won with the best of 'em-- the angry frustrated culturalist xenophobic jingoists won the day.
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I guess they had the loudest voice. Were the dems too complacent, or you think their record in office was really that bad?
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 05:08 |
SteveG wrote:
^ Wasn't the popular voting 51% for Hillary, 49% for Trump. That's no small minority! |
Ok, I didn't realise it was that tight. The voter turnout was high too, over 58% IIRC. It does seem bizarre, at least to many outsiders, that there would such a cultural shift from one extreme to the other over 8 years.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23104
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 05:00 |
Stupid is as stupid does I guess. I think there are certain areas where Trump probably is as clever as they get. Then on the other hand there's the 10 year old sociopath that often seems to raise his ugly head on Twitter. I imagine it'd be like hearing Michael Phelps talking about upper torso movements in water and then with the same level of authority explain the mating rituals of the African rhino.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65684
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 04:32 |
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Yeah I don't think the Dems would've won with the best of 'em-- the angry frustrated culturalist xenophobic jingoists won the day.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 04:18 |
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^ Wasn't the popular voting 51% for Hillary, 49% for Trump. That's no small minority!
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