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Topic ClosedWhat is "prog" about Tool and similar bands?
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Guldbamsen View Drop Down
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:52
Yes it consists of bearded bear hunters that in between shots of vodka evaluate music from the tundras of Siberia.
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Points: 2673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:49
LOL

Though having Hot Rats in the RATZ sub-genre is appropriate.
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:43
^Um, Wacko is there a Russian team?
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:38
I like the TZAR one, but that may confuse people into thinking it's the Russian team.
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Points: 21272 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:32
I personally think we should be TZAR or RATZ as I prefer the acronyms LOL

Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - January 09 2015 at 09:32
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:31
Thanks Ian, It was R in RIO and I in Indo Raga that threw me! LOL
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Points: 21272 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:29
ZART = Zeuhl, Avant, RIO Team
PSIKE = Psych, Space, Indo-Raga, Krautrock, Electronic.
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:21
Btw, what are the ZART and PSIKE teams?
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 08:29
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

That was a good post, but Freak Out! was never a prog album. Sorry Svet. It was an experimental blues rock album with some avantguarde tendencies thrown in for good measure.....but prog? Definitely no. Forward thinking and one of the most innovative releases of 1966? You betcha!
I agree. Sometimes it is best just to state genres instead of artists.
Regardless, it's still the best thing I've read by Svetonio.


Edited by SteveG - January 09 2015 at 08:33
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 08:27
Originally posted by PhideauxFan PhideauxFan wrote:

Maybe, Tool is a "modern" progressive band, that can't be understood by dusty progsters who have the old same sounds of mellotron and mini-moog in their head. Big smile
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Points: 12299 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 07:11
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

(...) I'd say Hot Rats was his first true prog album (...)
Thank you.

One thing is certain: Zappa made the/his very first Canterbury-tune in 1967. Man what a total gem it is:



I think the best way for weepingelf to understand why Tool are on PA is to check out their discography backwards. Not necessarily because 10000 Days is their best (most fans would would say Lateralus is) but I think its probably the easiest album to digest if for someone largely unfamiliar with progressive-metal or progrock beyond the classic era. It reminds me quite a bit of 90/00's King Crimson (a period of which I'm no fan of) or is the other way around? Besides most of the time its less metal than Porcupine Tree's Tool-apeing tunes on Deadwing. 
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 06:41
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

No I didn't say that. The first Genesis album was similarly not the one that cemented them as a prog rock group either.
Guldbamsen, I didn't ask you about Genesis Cry
Let's say that a newbie who just went into prog and asks the Admin of Prog Archives Forum, "please just tell me which Zappa's album is his first prog album, because I can see that Zappa is in Prog Archives, in RIO / Avant Prog section?", what will be your answer?
Zappa was there long before I joined the team so I don't know, but I think the reason for him in Avant is the same of Captain Beefheart. If Avant didn't exist we could invent and name a genre specific for them.
Do you see any other subgenre they could fit in?
Imo, it was OK to put Zappa in avant prog section; that's sound much better to my ears than "eclectic prog".
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Points: 4579 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 06:25
Maybe, Tool is a "modern" progressive band, that can't be understood by dusty progsters who have the old same sounds of mellotron and mini-moog in their head. Big smile
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 05:14
For the record, when I was still an active Collab, we tried to move Zappa to Eclectic, but the suggestion was voted down for a number of reasons I don't remember now.
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Points: 14514 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 04:38
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

No I didn't say that. The first Genesis album was similarly not the one that cemented them as a prog rock group either.
Guldbamsen, I didn't ask you about Genesis Cry
Let's say that a newbie who just went into prog and asks the Admin of Prog Archives Forum, "please just tell me which Zappa's album is his first prog album, because I can see that Zappa is in Prog Archives, in RIO / Avant Prog section?", what will be your answer?
Zappa was there long before I joined the team so I don't know, but I think the reason for him in Avant is the same of Captain Beefheart. If Avant didn't exist we could invent and name a genre specific for them.
Do you see any other subgenre they could fit in?
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 04:18
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

(...) I'd say Hot Rats was his first true prog album (...)
Thank you.
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Guldbamsen View Drop Down
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 04:10
It doesn't matter Svet. I don't have anything to say in that department. I'm not on the ZART team.....but if you really want to know, I'd say Hot Rats was his first true prog album (at least all the way through. There were hints of it earlier on but they crystallized on that album). Again this is just my opinion. Just because I am an admin doesn't mean that I have any control in these matters. I merely state my opinion like everyone else here😊
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 03:50
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

No I didn't say that. The first Genesis album was similarly not the one that cemented them as a prog rock group either.
Guldbamsen, I didn't ask you about Genesis Cry
Let's say that a newbie who just went into prog and asks the Admin of Prog Archives Forum, "please just tell me which Zappa's album is his first prog album, because I can see that Zappa is in Prog Archives, in RIO / Avant Prog section?", what will be your answer?
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Guldbamsen View Drop Down
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 03:34
But let's not make this into a Zappa thread. We've got plenty of those already.
Like I said earlier, this all boils down to one's definition of progressive music versus prog, which seems to be the neverending discussion on PA....of which I am getting pretty tired of tbh.
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Guldbamsen View Drop Down
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 03:29
No I didn't say that. The first Genesis album was similarly not the one that cemented them as a prog rock group either.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams
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