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Topic ClosedAlternative Reality 70's Prog History

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The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 11:22
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

3) Syd Barrett was able to pull himself together and Pink Floyd continued as a 5 piece with both Syd and David Gilmour.


Since PF actually did spend a very short time as a 5 piece I think this is a fascinating alternate reality.  Their original plan was for Gilmour to handle the live performances and Syd to remain the lyricist/songwriter behind the scenes (like Keith Reid of Procol).  PF would have remained a psych-prog hybrid with a cult audience.  With Syd still writing the songs the whole writing trio of Gilmour/Waters/Wright would never have developed.  Further, without Syd becoming an acid casualty, there'd have been no lunatic to inspire "Brain Damage" or anyone for the band to "Wish You Were Here".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 09:45
Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

Fripp explains the change in KC style to the BBC reporter
 
As a proffesional touring musician, you are working with the listner, and after years of denying what the listner wants, we have now come to a bridge of knowlage, they wants short easy basic R&B, thats what we are supplying.
 

Since when has Fripp ever cared about the audience.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 09:44
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

And what if Tony Iommi actually remained as Tull's lead guitarist? The album "Jethro Bloody Jethro" would have been quite interesting.Wink
 

Jethro Bloody Jethro by Black Tull. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 09:10
If Spirit had accepted the invitation to play at Woodstock, their popularity would have been given a timely boost, and the 1970 release of Twelve Dreams of Doctor Sardonicus would have become the new standard in mainstream progressive rock, it would have become one of the longest running chart entries in rock history, and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon would merely have been praised as a continuation and refinement of the studio experimentation that Spirit began.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 09:00
Fripp explains the change in KC style to the BBC reporter
 
As a proffesional touring musician, you are working with the listner, and after years of denying what the listner wants, we have now come to a bridge of knowlage, they wants short easy basic R&B, thats what we are supplying.
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 08:54
BBC Live tonight - Tonight with best selling UK band of 1973 King Crimson with the amasing singer Phil Collins
Singing their Smash hit "In the Airport tonight"
As everyone know Phil came to Crimson from the unknown band Genesis, the band was split after Peter Gabriel & Steve Hacket left to form GTH with tony Levin.
GTH is currently touring Japan, the only place left, where Progressive Rock is selling Albums.
 
After the unsucessfull album Tales..................Sleepy, Yes have resently had some sucess with the instrumental Jazz Fussion album Graduately going Relayer. Anderson was kicked, now preforming as a broadway musical singer.
 
Bad news, the relatively unknown acid/stoner rock outfit Pink Floyd, have all died after trying to fly a kite formed as a pig, from the Big Ben tower, rumors say they were all freaking high on acid.  
 



Edited by tamijo - August 06 2013 at 08:58
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 08:38
I don't know what's real anymore.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 08:33
The nice thing aboubt time travel is when I go back in time and change things no one in the present notices a change even though there was a huge change from my timeline where these three questions posed were:
 
1) What if Bill Bruford left Yes after CTTE and was replaced by the drummer form Joe Cocker's backing band? Would the single album Tales From Topographic Oceans still stand as the epitome of restrained and controlled Progressive Rock and more importantly, would it still be at #1 in the PA Top 100 (and would the follow-up TFTO part 2 - The Relayer still be at #2)?
 
2a) What would Trick of the Tale have been like with Phil Collins doing all the singing? (stop laughing, it could happen)
and
2b) What would the album "Five Get Into A Fix" be called if Peter and Steve left had after the epic Wind And Wuthering?
 
3) Would Pink Floyd have followed the Progressive Rock path if Dave Gilmour from Joker's Wild had been brought in to play guitar, or would they still be touring the Mecca Ballrooms with Marmalade and The Hollies as part of the Pscyh-Sixites Revival Show.
 
 
Still, the 4th question, whose alternate-reality counter version, (for some odd reason of time-dilation and reflex causality that has yet to be explained), hasn't found it's way on to this timeline:
 
4) Would Yes still be the biggest band in the world if we replaced Anderson and Wakeman with the singer and keyboardist from a 80s one-hit wonder band like say The Korgies or, I dunno, The Buggles, for one album?
 
 


Edited by Dean - August 06 2013 at 08:35
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 07:42
Not really prog, but I've often thought about how it would've panned out, if Steve Miller Band had stayed together with Chuck Berry and talked him into doing Children of the Future and Sailor.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 07:32
And what if Tony Iommi actually remained as Tull's lead guitarist? The album "Jethro Bloody Jethro" would have been quite interesting.Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 07:20
I have always wondered what would have resulted if Helmut Koellen had not left Triumvirat at the end of '75, would the band have made a few more "Spartacus" quality records?
     And of course, wonder even if he had split from the band when he did, what would have transpired for Koellen had he not died in 1977, maybe his solo album would have really taken off?
          I think yes to both these scenarios, if i had to guess.
          
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 01:46
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

I always wondered what would have happened in prog history if the following alternative reality story lines had occurred.

1) Bill Bruford stayed with Yes and recorded Tales from Topographic Oceans and Relayer.

2) When Peter Gabriel left Genesis, Steve Hackett went with him and they formed a new band together.

3) Syd Barrett was able to pull himself together and Pink Floyd continued as a 5 piece with both Syd and David Gilmour.

Pick one and let your imagination run wild Wink

OK here I go :
 
1.
 Bruford was fed up with Yes and all the arguments that went on with the creative process. Wakeman was getting towards the end of his tether as well. By the time TFTO was finished Wakeman left in disgust. I really don't think Bruford would have made it through the whole mess. He took a pay cut and joined Crimson. I really don't think that Lark's, Starless & Bible Black or Red would have turned out like they did without Bill. remember Jamie Muir left just after Lark's was completed and joined some monks.
2.
Gabriel left Genesis for personal reasons. I don't think he or Hackett were even thinking of hooking up to form another band. I don't even think Gabriel was thinking about going solo at the time. Hackett stuck around for a couple of more albums before Philly turned it into a pop band to make $$$$$$$$. Then Hackett said f**k you Philly I've had enough of this nonesense. I'm an artist.
3.
Syd's mind  was toast. Scrambled eggs. Gilmour had to be brought in. If Syd's mind had not left him there would have been no Dave Gilmour. Why? The only reason Gilmour was brought in was because Syd's mind was in the twighlight zone.




Edited by Vibrationbaby - August 06 2013 at 01:50
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 01:13
Originally posted by RedNightmareKing RedNightmareKing wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Actually, another interesting thing about that lineup is - what would have become of ELP if Lake had stayed in KC and never joined the band?  Would Emerson and Palmer ever have formed the band in the first place?  Who would have been the singer?


I have a feeling it would have never materialized, honestly. Emerson would probably go solo or continue with the Nice, and Palmer would stay with Atomic Rooster.

Both Emerson and Lake wanted out of their respective bands of course so it suited them to form a new band. Palmer was actually very happy in Atomic Rooster and it took a some very strong words from Lake to get him to leave (''you are not only damaging me but yourself as well and that's heavy'' ).

The Nice had run its course although Moraz did a great job with Refugee (The Nice Part 2)
King Crimson's best line up was on Red imo.
Atomic Rooster with Palmer - now that's the interesting one. Could have been one of the major players in the prog scene perhaps? Crane was a very talented organist no doubt.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2013 at 23:38
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

1) Bill Bruford stayed with Yes and recorded Tales from Topographic Oceans and Relayer.


1. I think Tales from Topographic Oceans would have been marginally better but Relayer would have been crippled.


Hmm...I don't know that Relayer would have been bad, and Bruford would definitely have gotten more into it than he did into the earlier material.  It would have been different, though.  Much different.  And no, not as good, methinks, as it would have lost some of the aggressiveness that White brought to it.  Bruford was jazzier but White fit the album better and gave it balance.

I think Tales with Bruford would have been incredible (especially "The Ancient") but I'm with both of you on Relayer.  Gates of Delirium and Sound Chaser especially required a "power drummer" like White not a "jazz drummer" like Mr B.  Other than "Ritual" with the huge percussion ensemble, I always felt Alan White was a bit tentative with the other songs on Tales - perhaps because it was his 1st exposure to the Yes way of doing things - but he really staked out his place and heavily contributed to Relayer.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2013 at 23:33
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Actually, another interesting thing about that lineup is - what would have become of ELP if Lake had stayed in KC and never joined the band?  Would Emerson and Palmer ever have formed the band in the first place?  Who would have been the singer?



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2013 at 23:26
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Actually, another interesting thing about that lineup is - what would have become of ELP if Lake had stayed in KC and never joined the band?  Would Emerson and Palmer ever have formed the band in the first place?  Who would have been the singer?


I have a feeling it would have never materialized, honestly. Emerson would probably go solo or continue with the Nice, and Palmer would stay with Atomic Rooster.
I consider drone metal to be progressive...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2013 at 23:26
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

I'm glad the 1969/1970 KC line-up broke up. That's why groups break up. Either they hate each other or just get a bad vibe from each other or they are just different musically. Deviating from that natural course that KC took would mean things getting worse. Someone would get on drugs or alcohol or something and tolerate the enduring environment, or they would make a (semi-)s%^tty, uninspired album.

According to Fripp's journal, the '69 band fell apart after the final show of the tour in SF.  He actually offered to leave the band if the others wanted to keep King Crimson going.  What in the world would that have done to prog history?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2013 at 23:04
Actually, another interesting thing about that lineup is - what would have become of ELP if Lake had stayed in KC and never joined the band?  Would Emerson and Palmer ever have formed the band in the first place?  Who would have been the singer?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2013 at 22:55
I'm glad the 1969/1970 KC line-up broke up. That's why groups break up. Either they hate each other or just get a bad vibe from each other or they are just different musically. Deviating from that natural course that KC took would mean things getting worse. Someone would get on drugs or alcohol or something and tolerate the enduring environment, or they would make a (semi-)s%^tty, uninspired album.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - August 05 2013 at 22:56
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2013 at 22:50
Giles is great. The title track from Poseidon is a joy to listen to.
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