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jude111 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 20 2009
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 Posted: April 26 2013 at 17:07 |
 ExittheLemming wrote:
The consumers who made Prog mainstream and popular in the 70's were not
also buying Donny Osmond, David Cassidy and Bay City Rollers records
were they?
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Are you sure? Top Billboard hits in 1975 include songs by Jethro Tull, 10cc, Paul McCartney & Wings, Queen, Electric Light Orchestra, Styx, Earth, Wind & Fire, Elton John, David Bowie, Al Green, Rod Stewart, Ringo Starr, the Eagles, the Bee Gees, Stevie Wonder, Bachman–Turner Overdrive, Average White Band, Linda Ronstadt, KC and the Sunshine Band, Doobie Brothers. I think I've bought records by nearly everyone above at some point in my life (used most often, or at least checked them out at the library  ).
Edited by jude111 - April 26 2013 at 17:35
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
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Points: 11420
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 16:53 |
Dean wrote:
lucas wrote:
Given that prog rock was very popular in the seventies, i would also include it under the generic label of 'pop music'. |
QFT |
I think anyone's endorsement of this statement though sincere, must represent the apex of Pedantry Archives. Perhaps it's our fault for lazy association of ideas etc but it serves no purpose to equate pop music
with anything that sold in large quantities that ain't academic music.
The consumers who made Prog mainstream and popular in the 70's were not
also buying Donny Osmond, David Cassidy and Bay City Rollers records
were they? Cue a montage of some erudite Progster's album collection at around this time which encompasses Alvin Stardust (the Godfather of nested septuplets) and Gentle Giant
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 13:20 |
lucas wrote:
Given that prog rock was very popular in the seventies, i would also include it under the generic label of 'pop music'. |
That can be alright from an academical point of view but it's distorting the meaning of the OP just for the sake of contradicting. When we informally talk about 'Pop music' we kind of know what we are talking about, at least more or less, even if it's surely not universally defined and not everybody will think exactly the same. But I don't think ELP's Toccata or Yes Close To The Edge will come to mind to most people when they think about the term 'Pop music'  .
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jude111
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Joined: October 20 2009
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:43 |
Dean wrote:
I'd say that was a mass-market pop(ular) record and not a high-brow culture recording. If you need to be pedantic about it, that was a crossover just as Katherine Jenkins or Vanessa Mae are crossover... and that's Pop Music.
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I was trying to say this, but getting tangled up in my words  Cheers 
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:36 |
jude111 wrote:
Stool Man wrote:
Larree wrote:
Pop will never stop because pop is simply short for popular so whatever is popular will always be pop. Forever. |
Indeed. Caruso sold a million a century ago, and many more did the same since then. |
Opera is not popular culture, or should I say, it's not mass culture. High culture, defined as the culture of the elite, the aristocracy, the intelligentsia, historically stood in opposition to the "low" class, working class, mass-produced popular culture industry which arose in the last few centuries. We should be clear that when we're talking about pop music, we're not talking about symphonies or operas. Indeed, the term "culture" itself was historically seen to be something that belonged purely to the aristocratic classes - the masses themselves were seen to be *lacking* any culture.
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People didn't buy Caruso's opera's by the million - they bought his recording of a single aria:
| Wikipedia: Caruso biographers Pierre Key, Bruno Zirato and Stanley Jackson attribute Caruso's fame not only to his voice and musicianship but also to a keen business sense and an enthusiastic embrace of commercial sound recording, then in its infancy. Many opera singers of Caruso's time rejected the phonograph (or gramophone) owing to the low fidelity of early discs. Others, including Adelina Patti, Francesco Tamagno and Nellie Melba, exploited the new technology once they became aware of the financial returns that Caruso was reaping from his initial recording sessions |
| Enrico Caruso (1873-1921) records the first million-selling record: Vesti la Giubba (On with the Motley) from Leoncavallo’s opera Pagliacci. It is one of 10 recordings made in the session for Victor Records in the US for which the singer is paid $4,000. By 1952 Caruso’s recordings for RCA-Victor make over $3.5m in royalties—the largest sum earned by any of the company’s recording artists up to that date. |
I'd say that was a mass-market pop(ular) record and not a high-brow culture recording. If you need to be pedantic about it, that was a crossover just as Katherine Jenkins or Vanessa Mae are crossover... and that's Pop Music.
Edited by Dean - April 26 2013 at 12:36
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What?
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jude111
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 20 2009
Location: Not Here
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Points: 1754
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:21 |
Stool Man wrote:
Larree wrote:
Pop will never stop because pop is simply short for popular so whatever is popular will always be pop. Forever. |
Indeed. Caruso sold a million a century ago, and many more did the same since then. |
Opera is not popular culture, or should I say, it's not mass culture. High culture, defined as the culture of the elite, the aristocracy, the intelligentsia, historically stood in opposition to the "low" class, working class, mass-produced popular culture industry which arose in the last few centuries. We should be clear that when we're talking about pop music, we're not talking about symphonies or operas. Indeed, the term "culture" itself was historically seen to be something that belonged purely to the feudal classes - the masses themselves were seen to be *lacking* any culture.
Edited by jude111 - April 26 2013 at 12:49
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jude111
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:11 |
Larree wrote:
Pop will never stop because pop is simply short for popular so whatever is popular will always be pop. Forever. |
Someone else wrote something similar: "Since the dawn of mankind, before time and recorded history, when man crawled out of the slime and began slithering away in the mud towards green pastures, man's been listening to Top 40 music on the radio," or something like that. No, pop music - indeed, pop culture - has a definite history, an origin in history and aligned with technological developments, social relations and economic development. It's not eternal. It's not even that old; it's relatively new in human history.
Edited by jude111 - April 26 2013 at 12:14
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Stool Man
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Joined: January 30 2007
Location: Anti-Cool (anag
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:05 |
Larree wrote:
Pop will never stop because pop is simply short for popular so whatever is popular will always be pop. Forever. |
Indeed. Caruso sold a million a century ago, and many more did the same since then.
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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Larree
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:03 |
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Pop will never stop because pop is simply short for popular so whatever is popular will always be pop. Forever.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:55 |
lucas wrote:
Given that prog rock was very popular in the seventies, i would also include it under the generic label of 'pop music'. |
QFT
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What?
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DisgruntledPorcupine
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Joined: January 16 2010
Location: Thunder Bay CAN
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Points: 4395
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:04 |
Atavachron wrote:
There are teenagers who like Sinatra, the Beatles, AC/DC, and who dislike Bieber, Gaga, and Nicki Minaj-- evidently good is almost always still good.
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Personally I'd take any of those artists over AC/DC any day. 
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DisgruntledPorcupine
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Location: Thunder Bay CAN
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:03 |
Padraic wrote:
I like Adele. |
Same.
I also like Justin Timberlake's new album a lot and although Kanye West is not my style, he is talented. Gotye is great too.
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lucas
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 01:47 |
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Given that prog rock was very popular in the seventies, i would also include it under the generic label of 'pop music'.
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: April 24 2013 at 20:37 |
When bubbles all bust.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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presdoug
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Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
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Points: 8778
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Posted: April 24 2013 at 20:21 |
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When i think of the future of music, and any label(s) we have attached to it, like "pop music", and what that means for us right now, you can safely say "Expect the Unexpected". Society, people and the affiliations they have with the arts are constantly evolving and i think the future holds more change than we can even fathom looking ahead right now, so i think years from now, it will not be the same. Of course, there will still be young and older people, but the way they interact and even view each other and their music will be altered. That's my guess.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
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Posted: April 24 2013 at 19:48 |
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I like Adele.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: April 24 2013 at 19:38 |
I think some prog fans grumble about pop because pop doesn't have much to do with rock anymore (unlike the 80s) and is mostly dance music. Even then, I don't really see how Adele is more unpalatable than, um, Olivia Newton John. When I was growing up, they used to broadcast live shows of Celine Dion....and I liked it very much at that time. 
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silverpot
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Posted: April 24 2013 at 14:24 |
Funny but when pop music was young, there were lots of people who really detested these new acts, like The Beatles, The Kinks, The Moodies and others. The jazzers among my older relatives made fun of me because I had such bad taste in music as they saw it. Not to speak of my grandmother, who only listened to classical music, she couldn't even stand jazz.
Let the kids listen to Bieber, and the rest of todays popular acts. When they've grown up they'll either find something more interesting, or stop listening to music altogether because it wasn't their thing.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
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Points: 10616
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Posted: April 24 2013 at 13:42 |
Blacksword wrote:
Guru... |
Yes, my subconscious immediately reminded me of those words as well. Funny to see I'm not the only one.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Posted: April 24 2013 at 11:19 |
jude111 wrote:
CPicard wrote:
Stool Man wrote:
pop = dad, so pop music = dad music |
Then, what music does mama listen to?
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Wouldn't it be 'kid's music'? As in, "Back in my day, I walked to school barefoot through the snow, and music was good."
I call this Old Fogeyism, when the Olden Dayzers reminisce about how much better everything used to be, and how everything's gone to sh*te since then, and the music of today is not as good as the music of yesterday, and how the kids have no taste anymore...
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Last night, I heard my mama singing a song
Ooh-We, Chirpy, Chirpy, Cheep, Cheep
Woke up this morning and my mama was gone
Ooh-We, Chirpy, Chirpy, Cheep, Cheep
Chirpy, Chirpy, Cheep, Cheep, Chirp
... they don't write songs like that any more. 
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What?
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When will 'Pop music' stop?
