Progressive rock: a man's genre?

Alitare wrote: There is no such thing as a genetic 'mistake'. Everything we do is circumstantial, genetic, environmental, conditioned, and attributed to an infinite web of faceted circumstances that have constructed the situations we're in. Of course there are genetic differences - that's scientific. Does that mean ALL women and men think in exactly the same ways? Reality doesn't generalize. Fact is fact. The goal of scientific research is to explain, not typify. Everything you like and do can be rationally explained by applying enough attention to the individual strands that have coalesced together to construct your existence.  I want a blowjob.

Ah! Tell that to my vestigial tail. Although it does give me amazing balance.

I agree with your final statement, but strongly disagree with your overall conceptualization. I was planning on spending a little time poking your previous post about racism and survivalism with a stick, but it was crammed full of delicious dudely posturing and I got bored. Maybe I'll go back later today, even if the prospect thrills me about as much as stabbing myself in the eye with a thumbtack coated in lemon juice. That's the problem with these debates: they are never actual debates.

As for the blowjob, have a few ribs removed.




Edited by Lozlan - May 27 2011 at 11:28

There is no such thing as a genetic 'mistake'. Everything we do is circumstantial, genetic, environmental, conditioned, and attributed to an infinite web of faceted circumstances that have constructed the situations we're in. Of course there are genetic differences - that's scientific. Does that mean ALL women and men think in exactly the same ways? Reality doesn't generalize. Fact is fact. The goal of scientific research is to explain, not typify. Everything you like and do can be rationally explained by applying enough attention to the individual strands that have coalesced together to construct your existence. 

rogerthat wrote: ...anyway, Lozlan had said something to the effect earlier that the differences between men and women are socio-cultural. I'd disagree with that and say that even in music, there are some biological differences. The problem is really more that since music was dominated by men for so long, they have an unreasonable expectation that women should do everything the way the man do it in music, else it's not good. That wall too is gradually being broken down. Anyway, with regard to singing, I do think soprano voices have more facility in melodious and soft singing than tenor types.  Of course, you can always find tenors who sing much better than some sopranos too, so this is just a general observation and also based more on sopranos and tenors in rock/pop and not classical music.  Sopranos tend to be women so there's a biological difference for you. In fact, there's practically nothing you can do about the voice type you are born with and it will cast you into a different niche of singing.  Contralto females are more suitable for jazz singing and for folk/classical, soprano works well. Once again, capable singers break these barriers too but they do have a bearing on what kind of singing you tend more towards. Women are also better at expressing reticence and ambivalence in singing. I think this is partly a function of the voice type and partly a cultural difference.  In short, there will be some inherent differences between men and women because, well, they can and we can't  but because society was male dominated these differences were for a long time projected as proof of women's inferiority to men, which is needless to say a sexist stance.

I really don't understand why evolution and biological imperatives would influence the types of music a person enjoys. Are you making some argument that women are more soft, cuddly, and caring (mothering instinct or what have you), and therefore like music that is sappy and emotional? I really don't buy that the type of voice an individual has influences their musical preference...I like Captain Beefheart but I certainly don't have a five-octave growling range capable of shattering cinderblocks.

Also, since I know a fair number of women who enjoy prog, are they some sort of genetic mistake? Let's get specific here.


Edited by Lozlan - May 27 2011 at 11:09

...anyway, Lozlan had said something to the effect earlier that the differences between men and women are socio-cultural. I'd disagree with that and say that even in music, there are some biological differences. The problem is really more that since music was dominated by men for so long, they have an unreasonable expectation that women should do everything the way the man do it in music, else it's not good. That wall too is gradually being broken down. Anyway, with regard to singing, I do think soprano voices have more facility in melodious and soft singing than tenor types.  Of course, you can always find tenors who sing much better than some sopranos too, so this is just a general observation and also based more on sopranos and tenors in rock/pop and not classical music.  Sopranos tend to be women so there's a biological difference for you. In fact, there's practically nothing you can do about the voice type you are born with and it will cast you into a different niche of singing.  Contralto females are more suitable for jazz singing and for folk/classical, soprano works well. Once again, capable singers break these barriers too but they do have a bearing on what kind of singing you tend more towards. Women are also better at expressing reticence and ambivalence in singing. I think this is partly a function of the voice type and partly a cultural difference. 

Edited by rogerthat - May 27 2011 at 06:05

When I typed "It sounds abrasive and aggressive", I was talking about the tone of my response.

^^^ Exactly.

^^^^ On the other hand, I knew one woman who was very knowledgable about prog at the time I was getting into it.  Knew a lot of Canterbury apart from the usual suspects, also LTE and all that.  And it's not true that men don't complain about its being weird. They do, they just may not call it that. They will say it's all trippy hipster trash or washing machine music, all things to indicate that they can't make head or tail of it and find it displeasing to their ears.  

At Penn State, a girl who was dating the guy who lived right around the corner liked just about everything she heard coming out of my door when she walked past.  That included everything from prog folk to RIO/Avant/Zeuhl to free jazz to Canterbury scene to eclectic prog, etc.  I think anyone can like prog, it's not exclusively a "man's genre."  Look at the ZART, Cleo's a woman and she seems to enjoy this kind of stuff. 

Catcher10 wrote: Please take that question to CPicard......I did not use those words.....You all are totally confused on this thread. I grew up listening to all types of music and still do. My wife and I have seen Iron Maiden 3x, Scorpions 2x, Judas Priest, Earth Wind & Fire 3x as well as Kenny G who she likes.......So her tastes vary quite much. The question is, is Prog Rock-a man's genre? I gave reasons why I think it is and why in general more women do not listen to prog.   Cheers!

Actually you have. When you say, "to use your words it is abrasive and aggressive music", you are agreeing with him on that description. But you sound genuinely badgered, so maybe you forgot that you had used those words.

rogerthat wrote: Catcher10 wrote: Because, to use your words, prog music is abrasive and agressive, the wonderful lyrics can get ignored in a lot of cases. But to us men, since we enjoy the music, we can listen to the lyrics and pull out the meanings quite easily.   So why are their no women music reviewers, reviewing prog rock albums? Outside prog circles, nobody considers prog, and especially classic prog, 'abrasive' and 'aggressive', they just dub it polite and pretentious, be they men or women.  I have seen women attend extreme metal concerts so I don't think the abrasiveness has anything to do with it. I don't know if you grew up in a family that listens to prog, because otherwise you'd be used to the idea that only a small minority likes prog, whether it's men or women and most people don't warm up to it.   Has nothing to do with 'inherent differences' between men and women. To reiterate my earlier point, 'we' assume that 'they' think differently, don't like this or can't do that and hence don't canonize female artists on merit the way we ought to, which reinforces the impression of it being a man's genre. But there are a lot of women who listen to rock-related music and lot of women making or performing it too.