Crossover Prog vs. Neo-Prog - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Anderson III View Drop Down

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Posted: December 04 2010 at 05:30

Radiohead, Mike Oldfield, Björk, Talk Talk... We have a winner!

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A Person

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Posted: December 04 2010 at 01:26

Crossover easily.

JJLehto

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Posted: December 04 2010 at 00:24

Not even trying to be funny...

Neither

Approve

So no vote for me

Edited by JJLehto - December 04 2010 at 00:24

rogerthat

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 21:48

This is not the thread for it, but I agree with Ivan on two points. Having the distinction between Crossover and PR would make some sense if Kate Bush, Metallica or Muse are shifted to prog genre baskets. As it stands, the difference is rather semantic. Post-metal should ideally be lumped with post rock and tech-extreme and prog metal should be just one prog metal genre. But, knowing metalheads, we should be grateful there aren't a hundred prog metal genres already here like blackened prog metal, slam prog metal, power prog metal, whatever, just jk. LOL

I think RPI bands too could be classified into appropriate genres like symph/eclectic, but if it's broken up, then there will be suggestions that Krautrock too is just a regional classification and reclassifying bands like Can or Faust could get messy.

Lark the Starless View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 21:11

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

It's mutual, you always make me smile from the moment I see your avatar.

Iván

Get a room, you two

Chris S

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 21:05

Yeah Ivan is always respectful regardless of the subject matter. I would be in the front line with him anyday. Traditionilist views with a grown up attitude. Crossover rules P/R all the way IMO..... P/R could potentially be removed, but I am not for that either,I respect the genre tag and the efforts people have put in too much....

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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:59

It's mutual, you always make me smile from the moment I see your avatar.

Iván

Slartibartfast View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:36

Actually, I've always enjoyed reading your opinions and reviews whether or not I agree with them. Big smile

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:02

Slartibartfast wrote:

]

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe Crossover shouldn't exist, it is almost another Prog Related.

Iván

I would never attempt to write a sub genre definition/description for a sub genre I don't like. I suspect someone may be a little bitter at having his definition of a particular sub changed. But frankly the previous definition of Prog Related pretty much excluded all the artists that were already included. And if you don't like Crossover, Prog Related, or any other sub, don't get mad, just move on.

Lets start from the beginning:

The first modification that excluded all the bands from Prog Related, was not made by me, my definition used the term "influential OR influenced OR recognized as important for Prog development" the two "OR" were changed for the word "AND" to exclude further silly suggestions, but not by me (even when I agreed).
I don't care if a definition is replaced for another one, even if the modified is mine, because I'm not paid for having a definition here, so I loose nothing.
I don't dislike Prog Related or Crossover, I believe that both shouldn't co-exist, because both are more or less the same, and IMO Prog Related should stay.

Just to end, I don't get mad, simply I give my opinion to which I'm entitled, and still believe that:

There should be only one Metal sub-genre
Crossover shouldn't exist as long as we have Prog Related
No territorial based sub genre should exist, including RPI and Indo Prog/Raga Prog

If you like my opinion, great, if you don't it's OK by me, but nobody can ask me not to give my opinions.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 03 2010 at 20:04

stonebeard View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 19:37

harmonium.ro wrote:

Good post Dean, but people are just upset about NIN, Bjork and Tori Amos, they don't want to debate with you actual discussion points.

Maybe because the other points don't deserve ridicule, unlike the inclusion of those artists on this site.

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Slartibartfast View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 19:32

]

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe Crossover shouldn't exist, it is almost another Prog Related.

Iván

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Oliverum

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 17:14

Both my favourites. But I´ll go for neo this time, because I have high hopes for this genre in the future.

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Man With Hat View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:36

Dean wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe Crossover shouldn't exist, it is almost another Prog Related.

Iván

Neo Prog has its origins firmly within Symphonic Prog - as a style of Prog it is Symphonic Prog with 80s (post-punk) ideology, 80s production and 80s characteristical styling of shorter "poppier" songs and less of the unrestrained instrumental excesses of the 70s symphonic, space-rock and head-music bands - applying those ideals and characteristics to every other "pure Prog" subgenre within the Prog canon we would arrive at a myriad of subsubgenres such as Neo Kraut, Neo Avant, Neo Prog Folk, Neo Electronic, Neo Space/Psyche ... or we can lump them all together within one all encompassing subgenre and call it Crossover.

Not to sidetrack the thread but...are there really neo kraut and neo avant bands in crossover?? (I thought that avant-pop bands or poppy prog folk bands were kept in their respective subgenres...although admittedly don't know much about either)

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Man With Hat View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:32

Seems I dislike crossover prog just as much as the majority here dislikes neo prog.

Neo prog of course.

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harmonium.ro View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:27

As for me, I didn't like Neo-Prog when I was a prog-snob, but as now I've moved out of that phase and I'm discovering the 80s, post-punk and new-wave, I'm sure Neo-Prog will sound different to my ears.

For the moment I choose Crossover, there's too much brilliant stuff in there.

harmonium.ro View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:21

Dean wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe Crossover shouldn't exist, it is almost another Prog Related.

Iván

Almost, but it isn't. While Prog Related has the caveat of being for bands influenced by and influenced on Progressive Rock there will always be room for a subgenre of Progressive Rock for bands that arrived at a style of music that is recognisable as being Progressive Rock without actually being influenced directly by it.

Moreover, if we go back to the roots of Progressive Rock that formed in the post-Psychedelic era that came after the Summer of Love crumbled to dust there are a core of bands that produce (probably Beatles inspired) Baroque Pop, Art Pop and Progressive Pop that are unique and I would argue impossible to place in any existing "pure Prog" subgenre. These artists would similarly look "wrong" in Prog Related since they are of course The Moody Blues, Procol Harum, Barclay James Harvest, ELO, Argent and (perhaps contentiously, but I have argued his case extensively before) Mike Oldfield and Supertramp. Where I believe we have "gone wrong" in Prog Related is in keeping out of Crossover similar Prog Pop bands like Roxy Music & Phil Manzanera (Neo Canterbury x Art Rock), Queen (Neo Symphonic Pomp Rock), 10 c.c. & Godley & Creme (Neo Eclectic) simply because they carry "Glam Rock" baggage.

Good post Dean, but people are just upset about NIN, Bjork and Tori Amos, they don't want to debate with you actual discussion points.

Edited by harmonium.ro - December 03 2010 at 14:23

apps79

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 13:49

Flucktrot wrote:

Neo-prog...with a caveat:

When it's bad, it's REALLY bad, although it can be incredible!

Couldn't agree more...

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The Sleepwalker View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:40

Crossover, that's where all the good non-prog acts go to. Wink

The Monodrone View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:35

LinusW wrote:

Crossover. More interesting and diverse. There is only one neo-prog band I've ever returned to and actually liked - Marillion.

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Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:33

Vompatti wrote:

Crossover. The only neo-prog band I care for is Fish-era Marillion.

Pretty much this, there may be a few other than Marillion but crossover is where I've found a ton of my most loved bands.

Poll Question: Which of these sub-genres do you prefer?
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Crossover Prog	51	[68.00%]
Neo-Prog	24	[32.00%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted