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Chris S 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
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Points: 7028
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 Posted: July 12 2010 at 01:15 |
Let's view this from a simpleton's perspective for a minute......................They were all geniuses, including Mason. You do not become Pink Floyd for nothing. Another thing we bandstand and throw opinions that really mean diddley squat. Water's left Floyd because he had issues and a huge ego. He has admitted as much and regrets his angst........................BUT how many genius works have been created from members of bands in their prime when ego's and creativity was at the peak. UK band The Verve are a classic example.
Waters is as much Floyd as was Wright, Mason and Gilmour even in the latter years.
Reads Dean's comments above, says it all really 
Rave on Waters, rave on Gilmour, rave on Wright and rave on Mason ( besides I am glad Animals came out the way it did)
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28070
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Posted: July 12 2010 at 00:53 |
 RoyFairbank wrote:
I totally oppose any insult to Roger. He is Pink Floyd. Pink Floyd was nothing before Syd Left. Psychadelic bullsh*t, decent for that, but punchless. When the band was democratic they sucked even worst. Only when Roger took charge and began writing material "selfishly" did the greatest rock works come to life.
Roger had a vision, a conscience and an intelligent plan. Gilmour, the only other serious writer in the Floyd, was completely groundless and incapable when it came to writing ART and not just music. Roger made his guitar work meaningful. When Roger left David HIRED a bunch of great writers and they put together a MUSICAL copycat of Pink Floyd that is quite good, but misses the intellectual points of Floyd as seen in Rog's works Pros and Cons and Amused to Death.
Rog's show is brilliant by the way.
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Very one sided view of things.Waters was not a great musician and he needed Gilmour , Wright and Mason more than they needed him and history shows that imo.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 19:51 |
Snow Dog wrote:
sigh
Syd left Floyd he didn't disband them.
I'm fed up with this. |
What gives Roger the ability to unilaterally disband Pink Floyd? And technically I think Pink Floyd left Syd, although I can see why you're tired of arguing when your position is factually incorrect...
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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The Truth
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Joined: April 19 2009
Location: Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 21795
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 19:37 |
Ronnie Pilgrim wrote:
The Truth wrote:
Yes he's a great lyricist and an ok musician
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I think you have that backwards. 
Also seeing him in Denver in November. I've seen him twice before, and Floyd twice before, and let me reassure you: he is just as good as the whole band together. His bass is the most penetrating live bass I have ever experienced. Prepare to be penetrated! |
I always thought his lyrics were awesome... 
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RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2008
Location: Somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 1072
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 19:34 |
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I totally oppose any insult to Roger. He is Pink Floyd. Pink Floyd was nothing before Syd Left. Psychadelic bullsh*t, decent for that, but punchless. When the band was democratic they sucked even worst. Only when Roger took charge and began writing material "selfishly" did the greatest rock works come to life.
Roger had a vision, a conscience and an intelligent plan. Gilmour, the only other serious writer in the Floyd, was completely groundless and incapable when it came to writing ART and not just music. Roger made his guitar work meaningful. When Roger left David HIRED a bunch of great writers and they put together a MUSICAL copycat of Pink Floyd that is quite good, but misses the intellectual points of Floyd as seen in Rog's works Pros and Cons and Amused to Death.
Rog's show is brilliant by the way.
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Anthony
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2006
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 774
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 12:02 |
Adams Bolero wrote:
David Gilmour may have played great guitar solos but he wouldn't have had songs to play them if it wasn't for Roger writing them. Listen to his atmospheric bass playing in ''Careful with that axe Eugene'' and tell me he isn't a great bass player. |
LOL, you're joking,right? "Axe" is nothing more than a jam (hence credits for all band members) and any fool can play the same two notes for eight minutes.
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Future prosperity lies in the way you heal the world with love
(Introitus - The hand that feeds you)
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Ronnie Pilgrim
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 09 2010
Location: The South of TX
Status: Offline
Points: 771
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:32 |
The Truth wrote:
Yes he's a great lyricist and an ok musician
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I think you have that backwards.
Also seeing him in Denver in November. I've seen him twice before, and Floyd twice before, and let me reassure you: he is just as good as the whole band together. His bass is the most penetrating live bass I have ever experienced. Prepare to be penetrated!
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 16913
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:25 |
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From the reading I've done, I think he simply tired of carrying the others and fighting with people who were not able or willing to contribute much anymore. By Gilmour's own admission he was a lazy songwriter. He didn't do his part, and were it not for what others see as "tyrannical behaviour" by Waters, there would not have been all of those monster albums to enjoy. Someone had to keep the pressure on to *work*, and without Roger's willingness to be unpopular to the others, the band would have slipped much sooner into domesticity, sailing, and cars/golf. Sure, Waters no doubt was a huge ego and not very diplomatic, but these are symptoms of the underlying problem, not the problem itself.
That is not to diminish the musical talents of Gilmour and Wright, they are formidable at what they gave the group. But without Roger, you are left with the mediocrity of Momentary Lapse, etc.
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The Truth
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Joined: April 19 2009
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:24 |
Yes he's a great lyricist and an ok musician but he thinks he's alot more. I love the guy with all my heart but from what I hear no other member was "contributing" because Waters shot them down, mainly Wright. The reason he left is self-centeredness but I'm sure he was in the heat of the moment.
Going to see him live in October  |
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Hawkwise
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 31 2008
Location: Ontairo
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Points: 4119
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:23 |
Floyd after Waters  The name should never of .been used again . They where really just the David Gilmour Band and not really a very good one ether, Funny after Gilmour stopped using the Floyd name he finally made a good album On a Island .
Edited by Hawkwise - July 11 2010 at 10:26
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Ronnie Pilgrim
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 09 2010
Location: The South of TX
Status: Offline
Points: 771
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:13 |
I think "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" best demonstrates what Pink Floyd can achieve with the input of all the members. It was possibly the zenith of their combined efforts, and remains my favorite track to this day. If, as others have posted, the relationships became strained and soured, then it is no anomaly in music, the arts, and humanity in general that it was impossible to continue together. Thankfully, Roger continues to tour and, I can say from experience, that he is every bit as good performing their material live as the whole group.
Edited by Ronnie Pilgrim - July 11 2010 at 10:24
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trackstoni
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 23 2008
Location: Lebanon
Status: Offline
Points: 934
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 08:27 |
Originally posted by trackstoni
 Why Waters Left His Team in Your Opinion ! I Wasn't there ! But , I Would Like To Hear Yur Opinions ! |
Quote ( I think that the main reason is because he is a megalomaniac. All the time he was trying to concentrate the control over the overall band universe, more and more. I can understand that he was the concept designer of Pink Floyd. He brought the stronger ideas and the lyrics. But in a musical way he was mainly weak and repetitive. He couldn’t accept different points o view. Finally The Final Cut is not a Pink Floyd album. As the cover says is a Requiem composed by Roger Waters and performed by Pink Floyd. Of course that his personality destroyed Wright and then Mason. He couldn’t destroyed Gilmour despite he maybe humiliated him in the Final Cut. He thought that he was the owner of the band and maybe that after a time he could survive it again only by his own. Time demonstrates that finally he loss the game. As other bands (like Genesis) Pink Floyd shown their best when Waters, Gilmour and Wright joined their efforts in the songwriting. Dark side of the moon and Wish you were here demonstrates this clearly. If not see the ranks on this site. I think that Division Bell is much closer of the Pink Floyd sound than the Waters solo albums. Of course it lacks the underlying Waters concept, but musically is far better. ) Unquote
The Truth , nothing but the Truth
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Tracking Tracks of Rock
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genbanks
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2010
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 956
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 07:53 |
trackstoni wrote:
 Why Waters Left His Team in Your Opinion ! I Wasn't there ! But , I Would Like To Hear Yur Opinions ! |
I think that the main reason is because he is a megalomaniac. All the time he was trying to concentrate the control over the overall band universe, more and more. I can understand that he was the concept designer of Pink Floyd. He brought the stronger ideas and the lyrics. But in a musical way he was mainly weak and repetitive.
He couldn’t accept different points o view. Finally The Final Cut is not a Pink Floyd album. As the cover says is a Requiem composed by Roger Waters and performed by Pink Floyd. Of course that his personality destroyed Wright and then Mason. He couldn’t destroyed Gilmour despite he maybe humiliated him in the Final Cut. He thought that he was the owner of the band and maybe that after a time he could survive it again only by his own. Time demonstrates that finally he loss the game.
As other bands (like Genesis) Pink Floyd shown their best when Waters, Gilmour and Wright joined their efforts in the songwriting. Dark side of the moon and Wish you were here demonstrates this clearly. If not see the ranks on this site. I think that Division Bell is much closer of the Pink Floyd sound than the Waters solo albums. Of course it lacks the underlying Waters concept, but musically is far better.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 07:37 |
Animals was an album built around two songs that didn't make it onto WYWH (Raving and Drooling" and "Gotta Be Crazy") with new songs written by Waters. Rick Wright observed that this was the beginning of Waters ego trips where he believed he was the sole writer for the band and the reason it was still going.
For the next album Water presented demos of two concepts to the band, one became The Wall and the other The Pros And Cons Of Hitch Hiking. It is impossible to tell whether Pros and Cons would have been more successful as a Pink Floyd album, but I think it is most likely given the comparative (chart) success of The Final Cut.
By all accounts the recording of The Final Cut was stressful for all concerned, including Michael Kamen who had worked with Floyd on The Wall and Waters on Pros And Cons. He would later go on to work with both Waters and Gilmour on their (live) solo careers and with Floyd on The Division Bell, one of the few from that time who managed that. The rift between Waters and the rest of the band was so vast that he considered releasing the album under his own name. It is evident from that that he considered the band "a spent force" at that time.
When Waters announced he was leaving and that meant the band was over. Gilmour's reaction was that he and Mason would continue without him.
A Momentary Lapse shows signs of the disruption caused by Waters and the legal battle that was fought during the recording. As far as Waters was concerned Pink Floyd had disbanded and Gilmour and Mason should not continue to record under that name, (for legal reasons Wright was not allowed to be a member of the band), and he was taking legal action to stop the recording. Not only did it affect Wright and Mason's ability to play (their contribution on the album is minimal), it also affected Gilmour's ability to write and dented his self-confidence in the whole process. To say that Lapse is a bad Floyd album would be inaccurate, that it was made at all is more significant. It also out-sold The Final Cut and Radio K.A.O.S. which again says something for the selling power of the name rather than its content.
I think The Division Bell reflects the more relaxed atmosphere in the band, even though the central theme of communication is a reference to the problems of seven years earlier, with songs like "What Do You Want From Me" and "Keep Talking". By this time, Water's criticism of the band seem more like sour grapes and sniping.
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What?
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Adams Bolero
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2009
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 679
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 06:54 |
Anthony wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Anthony wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Anthony wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Did he leave? You can't leave a band that has been retired and doesn't exist.
Question should be why did he disband Pink Floyd. |
If we follow this logic, then Pink Floyd doesn't exist anymore ever since Syd left.  |
sigh
Syd left Floyd he didn't disband them.
I'm fed up with this. |
An Waters left and didn't disband Floyd either. He might have tried, but he failed miserably (as usual) |
But there were no members besides Waters.
Ok you have your truth I have mine. |
Dream on! I'd like to see Waters do all those great guitar solos. He can't even play bass anyway. |
David Gilmour may have played great guitar solos but he wouldn't have had songs to play them if it wasn't for Roger writing them. Listen to his atmospheric bass playing in ''Careful with that axe Eugene'' and tell me he isn't a great bass player.
Edited by Adams Bolero - July 11 2010 at 07:01
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''Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.''
- Albert Camus
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Anthony
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2006
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 774
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 06:18 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Anthony wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Anthony wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Did he leave? You can't leave a band that has been retired and doesn't exist.
Question should be why did he disband Pink Floyd. |
If we follow this logic, then Pink Floyd doesn't exist anymore ever since Syd left. |
sigh
Syd left Floyd he didn't disband them.
I'm fed up with this. |
An Waters left and didn't disband Floyd either. He might have tried, but he failed miserably (as usual) |
But there were no members besides Waters.
Ok you have your truth I have mine. |
Dream on! I'd like to see Waters do all those great guitar solos. He can't even play bass anyway.
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Future prosperity lies in the way you heal the world with love
(Introitus - The hand that feeds you)
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 06:13 |
Anthony wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Anthony wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Did he leave? You can't leave a band that has been retired and doesn't exist.
Question should be why did he disband Pink Floyd. |
If we follow this logic, then Pink Floyd doesn't exist anymore ever since Syd left. |
sigh
Syd left Floyd he didn't disband them.
I'm fed up with this. |
An Waters left and didn't disband Floyd either. He might have tried, but he failed miserably (as usual) |
But there were no members besides Waters.
Ok you have your truth I have mine.
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Anthony
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2006
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 774
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 05:45 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
^ Didn't Floyd leave Syd rather than Syd left Floyd?
Anyway, who needs Floyd when we've got Flaming Lips?
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Who needs Floyd when we've got... (fill in ANY band name!)
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Future prosperity lies in the way you heal the world with love
(Introitus - The hand that feeds you)
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Anthony
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2006
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 774
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 05:44 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Anthony wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Did he leave? You can't leave a band that has been retired and doesn't exist.
Question should be why did he disband Pink Floyd. |
If we follow this logic, then Pink Floyd doesn't exist anymore ever since Syd left. |
sigh
Syd left Floyd he didn't disband them.
I'm fed up with this. |
An Waters left and didn't disband Floyd either. He might have tried, but he failed miserably (as usual)
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Future prosperity lies in the way you heal the world with love
(Introitus - The hand that feeds you)
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 05:44 |
^ Didn't Floyd leave Syd rather than Syd left Floyd? Anyway, who needs Floyd when we've got Flaming Lips?
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