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brainstormer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 887
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 14:58 |
U.S.A. had Sun Ra.
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--
Robert Pearson
Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net
Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com
ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net
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esky
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 12 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 643
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Posted: March 16 2011 at 16:46 |
Ambrosia gave it the old college try but couldn't make a difference (even with Alan Parsons producing). What few good songs they recorded would have been notable if about 10 other American bands of prog influence were around at the time with some sort of credible output. It's, naturally, a game of numbers.
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 17724
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Posted: November 11 2010 at 12:34 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
verslibre wrote:
I agree, I think we ruled the roost when it came to fusion. American bands emulated the pioneering art rock (prog) bands in the UK, but a lot of players on the other side of the pond fervently wanted to play fusion like RTF, Mahavishnu, Weather Report, Herbie Hancock, etc. |
Perhaps, and I'm not being picky with ya, but John McLaughlin the prime mover and shaker in the Mahavishnu Orchestra was of course English.
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More importantly, Jan Hammer's a Czech, Laird was born in Dublin, and Billy Cobham's a Panamian transplant who's been Swiss since the '70s (after living in New York City).
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Nathaniel607
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 374
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 17:00 |
I haven't read all of this, but can I just say that I think it's a stupid question/argument.
Musicians don't make music according to where they come from. Just because people are from the same country doesn't mean they are somehow "Mind Linked" and will create similar music, or music of similar quality. Sure, sometimes the traditions and situations of where they live will effect their composition or playing, but I don't believe it's really noticeable when looking at all artists from that country.
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Xanatos
Forum Senior Member
Banned
Joined: February 01 2010
Location: Latin America
Status: Offline
Points: 305
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 13:07 |
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 12:54 |
UK def. up to mid 70's
US still behind but doing great with Fussion, from mid 70's - early 80's
Dosent matter much in the dark age (from early/mid 80's to mid/late 90's
Now a days i would say US with Tool, Mars Volta and many more US bands doing good.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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rod65
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 248
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 12:39 |
If you count as victory, not actually taking over the British colonies to the north of you: the intended aim of that little episode. Weird war that one. Both sides have reasons for claiming victory: successful defense of then-British territory on the one hand, local strategic superiority on the other. Regarding the Revolutionary War, the Brits made a strategic decision there as well: they did not have the resources to hold both the Colonies and Gibraltar, and decided that Gibraltar was of greater long-term value. They allocated resources accordingly, and the flowering of the British Empire during the 19th century largely as a result of their naval superiority and their holding of that particular piece of real estate points to their having made the right decision.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 09:55 |
verslibre wrote:
I agree, I think we ruled the roost when it came to fusion. American bands emulated the pioneering art rock (prog) bands in the UK, but a lot of players on the other side of the pond fervently wanted to play fusion like RTF, Mahavishnu, Weather Report, Herbie Hancock, etc. |
Perhaps, and I'm not being picky with ya, but John McLaughlin the prime mover and shaker in the Mahavishnu Orchestra was of course English.
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: November 10 2010 at 09:40 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
If I'm not mistaken we won the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812 (even if they did go burning down the house). |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 09 2010 at 19:07 |
If I'm not mistaken we won the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812 (even if they did go burning down the house).
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 17724
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Posted: November 09 2010 at 17:38 |
I agree, I think we ruled the roost when it came to fusion. American bands emulated the pioneering art rock (prog) bands in the UK, but a lot of players on the other side of the pond fervently wanted to play fusion like RTF, Mahavishnu, Weather Report, Herbie Hancock, etc.
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akajazzman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 13 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 124
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Posted: November 09 2010 at 14:58 |
I agree that UK invented Prog, and had the bulk of the great Proggers back in the golden days. Today, I don't think we can say that U.K is nearly as dominant. Mars Volta scores huge points for the U.S. on leading edge side of things. Decemberists, Tortoise, Coheed and Cambria to name a few more, and then a whole host of Prog Metal.
On the statement "I mean American bands are always behind. " I guess you're referring to Prog. But take a step back and remember who invented Rock n Roll. U.S.A.! And we had a few more innovations along the way too; electric blues; free jazz, Link Wray, Beach Boys, Dylan, Velvet Underground, Hendrix, The Doors, The Band, Allman Bros, jazz fusion,MC5/Stooges; Springsteen, Ramones, Talking Heads, hip hop, hardcore punk, Thrash metal, Nirvana, Wilco, and Arcade Fire, to name a few. OK Arcade Fire and The Band are Canadian, but we always take credit for the good stuff that comes out of Canada! .
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Nakatira
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 31 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 178
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Posted: October 31 2010 at 01:05 |
Judgding by my record collection, the UK wins hands down.
I've allways felt prog was british, not talkin about modern prog here.
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Rush77
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 27 2010
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 60
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Posted: October 29 2010 at 14:43 |
I got to go UK just because i listen to that stuff much more than the US stuff. Personally i would choose Canada cause of Rush (who are my gods) but the UK ones are not far behind so UK
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The_Jester
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 29 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 741
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Posted: October 28 2010 at 18:57 |
There's so much UK artist that we could name in term of originality but to me the most original prog superstar in the USA were clearly the Residents and Frank Zappa. In the Uk there's to much to make a list because of their overall originality.
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clarke2001
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: October 28 2010 at 18:42 |
Marty McFly wrote:
Technically speaking, both USA and UK are economically / socially similar countries. Well, it's not like comparing Pakistan & Sweden, is it ? Well, UK is 5 times smaller than USA. Is impact of UK 5 times lower than impact of USA ? You know, something similar to number of Prog bands per capita :-), comparing not total impact, but total impact / divided by size of country.
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Well that's easy. As of today, there are 761 British bands in the database, and 1224 American bands. Which means 1,6 times more American bands (not far from the golden ratio). British population: 62,041,708 American population: 310,578,000 Which means prog bands are three times more often in the UK.
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clarke2001
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: October 28 2010 at 18:25 |
Rabid wrote:
You can't deny the fact :
Miles Davis influenced EVERYONE, in some way.
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In a silent way.
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Marty McFly
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2009
Location: Czech Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 3968
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Posted: October 28 2010 at 14:59 |
Technically speaking, both USA and UK are economically / socially similar countries. Well, it's not like comparing Pakistan & Sweden, is it ? Well, UK is 5 times smaller than USA. Is impact of UK 5 times lower than impact of USA ? You know, something similar to number of Prog bands per capita :-), comparing not total impact, but total impact / divided by size of country.
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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: October 28 2010 at 09:46 |
A strange experience if you don't mind..........When I first discovered Progressive Rock in 1970, my first closeminded response was to Rock music.....Well, why do American Bands not sound like this? Later I found out that Deep Purple were influenced by Vanilla Fudge. Then I remembered that all the great British Blues guitarists like Peter Green, Mick Taylor and a host of others were under the influence of B.B. King and Chicago Blues and Delta. Everything started to come together for my idiot response. The British and others from various countries were obsessed with American music. Even bands like Omega.
The difference in the prog sound back then was the social environment affect on European musicians of the Classical background. Not something that took hold on American Musicans as a whole teaching, where Classical dominates rock. America had Virgil Fox and so many others performing just Classical here in the U.S. The American conrtibution to prog derived more from the electronic artists who consulted with Bob Moog. Moog helped these artists with the function of the moog and made suggestions for their plans. Beaver & Krause....In A Wild Sanctuary has prog elements all over the place and in 1970.. The album was a major influence to musicians from the golden prog era. Paul Beaver was a Classical musician and he added in that European style to rock. Gandharva has progressive music that was later influential to Jade Warrior.
American Blues music is progressive because during a very rapid shuffle, instruments can go off in a Jazz rampage. It can almost be jazz sometimes with a Blues mentality. Wes Montgomery live with Wynton Kelly trio is the prime example. Many of the long passages played by Keith Emerson derive from this concept in American music. Wakeman too. Rod Argent, Dave Greenslade, Peter Bardens(RIP), and others all played Saloon Bar piano style from the great west and also play blues and jazz. Progressive Rock bands from the early 70's had more of a Classical influence regarding the signature notes played in a Genesis song or the theatrical aspect to stage performances as Supper's Ready is almost like a play and some older prog epics are like opera. Fripp adapted American Jazz style to all the early Crimso releases. His guitar teacher taught him basically how to go about mastering the American sophisticated Jazz style. The Classical style incorporated into the European Prog was not as prominet in America or adaptable in that way or to that extreme.
Edited by TODDLER - October 28 2010 at 09:58
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peste
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 29 2008
Location: Paris
Status: Offline
Points: 30
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Posted: October 25 2010 at 10:02 |
sydbarrett2010 wrote:
maybe there is just one band in my country but he's good |
are you sure there's one rock band/artist in Iran? I doubt that.
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