UK vs. USA
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Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68922
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Topic: UK vs. USA
Posted By: Gandalff
Subject: UK vs. USA
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 03:58
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In my opinion, genuine cradle of Prog Rock is "Proud Albion". Bands like King Crimson, Yes, Van Der Graaf Generator, Nice, Gentle Giant, Hawkwind and many others had formed in late 60īs foundation and basic structure of a style named Progressive (or Prog) Rock.
And what about USA? I mean American bands are always behind. They are certainly stronger for example in Prog Metal, but strictly weaker, if we talk about classical subgenres like Symphonic or Psychedelic Prog...
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Replies:
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 04:02
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I do believe the USA have been markedley far more creative than the UK in recent times. If we are talking mainstream of course and what your intellect defines as progressive/
Prog on... ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 04:50
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Donīt care about my intellect, please. There is an evidence:
TOP PROG ALBUMS
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 07:38
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But it may be argued prog rock was build on the foundation of American underground music, including psychedelia (and much of UK psychedelia was comparatively wishy washy). For instance, Vanilla Fudge, then Touch had their moments and we haven't gone beyond early 1969. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 08:14
The top 100 chart uses an algorithm that relies on number of ratings as well as the ratings themselves. Most of the US albums simply don't have enough ratings and reviews to even come close to being in the top 10. One could therefore argue that bands like Kansas or Echolyn are "more overlooked." Leftoverture has the same rating as The Yes Album (4.22), but The Yes Album has over twice the ratings as Leftoverture.
What do you mean by "always behind?" How do you quantify that? ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Gandalff wrote:Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 08:32
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Hard to chose between :
USA
 and
UK
 ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 09:39
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UK?
I think if I ran the numbers on my collection UK artists would come out on top. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 09:46
vs ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 10:23
The best of both worlds!
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 10:24
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To Dick Heath:
OK, maybe the foundation on Prog Rock is American, but main formers of Prog are from Great Britain.
To Epignosis:
OK, Iīll correct my opinion "I mean American bands are always behind." to "sometimes behind".
I have thought just about that:
Byrds - American answer to Beatles,
Astra - -"- -"- to Pink Floyd,
Tool - -"- -"- to Porcupine Tree,
Yezda Urfa - -"- -"- to Gentle Giant,
Starcastle - -"- -"- to Yes,
Blue Oyster Cult - -"- to Black Sabbath, etc.
Of course, somebody can tell that sometimes American bands were the first , but I mean itīs only exemption. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 10:39
Lots of bands were heavily influenced by The Beatles (including Yes). Astra, to me, doesn't sound like Pink Floyd at all. Tool is the American answer to Porcupine Tree? What? Have you heard early Porcupine Tree and early Tool?  Starcastle I will grant you- they were blatantly going for the Yes sound. Of course, Yes were formed by a partnership of Jon Anderson and Chris Squire, who shared a strong fondness and influence of Simon & Garfunkel.  Anyway, I smell a pissing match.  ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 10:56
I disagree with the Tool/PT statement. Tool had their sort of style while PT was still a psychedelia band, so I think Tool had that style first. |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 11:01
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To Epignosis: Donīt worry!Yes were influenced by Simon and Garfunkel? Maybe in vocal structures, but the music is quite different. Iīve heard all Porcupine Tree albums and "Aenima" and "10000 Days" of Tool.
As regards Byrds, the label "US answer to Beatles" was given them by some then journalists.
But my another equations are correct, arenīt it?
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 13:06
The only two I didn't comment on was Yezda Urfa because I've not heard them, and Blue Oyster Cult because that was Sandy Pearlman's exact words ("USA's answer to Black Sabbath"). But of what significance is any of this? ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 13:15
And if cats are involved, everyone loses.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: aspinosa
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 14:39
| How about The Doors?? Velvet Underground ?? Chicago??Frank Zappa?? Blood Sweet and Tears?? Love?? and many others.... |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 14:54
Well, Zappa wins by sheer numbers of albums that I have. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 15:05
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We make better tea.
You make better coffee.
Oh sorry Prog.....oh well.
------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 15:18
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France. Ange. Magma. Heldon. Etron Fou Leloublan. Red Noise, Komintern, Alpes + Ribeiro, Malicorne, Âme-Son... /thread] (I should stop this running-gag, but I like it). |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 15:29
I thank you for the Earl Grey tea invention from your country but curse you for the BP, which I will not hold you personally responsible for. Although not all of us are particularly upset: Joe Barton (R. Moron) Would Like to Apologize to: England, about that whole Revolution thing. You can totally have the East Coast back now we're pretty much done with it. Men, for diluting our strong, masculine authority by giving women the vote. Milli Vanilli. you guys totally deserve another Grammy. Slovenia, for tying them in the second half of the World Cup match. Completely insensitive on our end to shakedown those two goals, and we deeply regret putting the ball in the net those three times and making you look bad. Let me make it up to you guys, I'll mail you some oil. England, again, for the war of 1812, and in particular, the battle of New Orleans. We should just have let you guys have North America. You obviously really wanted it.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 16:38
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It depends which sub genres you're talking about. America blazed something of a trail for RIO/Avant prog, mainly via Zappa and Beefheart (to say nothing of Sun Ra), and was pretty much the cradle of jazz-rock fusion. Then there's the Residents, the whole John Zorn downtown scene in New York and a thriving RIO scene that has gone from strength to strength since the 80s.
On the other hand, it's difficult to think of any American Zeuhl and the US contribution to Krautrock was pretty much limited to early Can vocalist Malcolm Mooney. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 16:46
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^yeah I agree, UK was spot on in the Symphonic Prog genre back in the 70's, probably the most popular sub-genre of Prog.
But, Symphonic Prog is not the only stlye of Prog, the most popular? Yeah, surely, but that's not where all the bands are.
RIO/Avant have some of their prime examples being from U.S.A. and other European countries. Well, Italy had their own brand of Symphonic that was not as popular as UK's, but equally strong and unique.
Prog Metal like the OP said, it's mainly driven by U.S. bands. Prog Electronic and Krautrock by Germany mainly. Jazz Rock/Fusion has its prime exponents from U.S.A.
And so on...
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 18:09
Another things are Jazz Rock/Fusion or Prog Metal. Yes, there is significant dominion of U.S. bands.
But I constantly assert that United Kingdom is a cradle of Prog Rock!
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 18:27
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In the end it doesn't matter for me who's the bigger giant in prog. I think the US and UK are the prog monsters. Other countries put out some good stuff and it's your (anyone's) loss if you don't try them. I'll admit I don't as often as I should. My latest and greatest discovery of late was The Gourishankar.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 18:51
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I give full credit to Britain for taking an American invention (rock 'n roll) to its full potential in ways no one could've imagined. However, considering the first real 'progressive' rock band IMO was the Beach Boys, when you include Zappa, Beaver & Krauss (not to mention Bob Moog), Touch (comprised mostly of Americans), and practically the entire psychedelic scene, the United States clearly played a crucial role in the evolution of rock music. |
Posted By: Canprog
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 18:52
You had me laughing until War of 1812 at which point I laughed harder because Canada/GB won that one.
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 18:56
And King Crimson had already invented the style while these twerps were still in diapers. Next! |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 19:03
King Crimson can't keep members...let alone a style. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Isa
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 19:33
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As far as major classic prog bands go, Kansas is the only well known one to produce prog from my home country, and they weren't even all American (correct me if I'm wrong...). I think it might have something to do with America's overemphasis on money as a end rather than the means of producing art. To make the most money you cheapen the product, so I'm sure many classic prog composers that might have been huge in Europe were given no attention in America. I could just see some American teens hearing the classic prog from Britain and form a band in that vein, but since record companies in America were ten years ahead in the commercialism aspect, they died before they could even develop. That's the only theory I have.
------------- The human heart instrinsically longs for that which is true, good, and beautiful. This is why timeless music is never without these qualities. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 05 2010 at 19:45
Everyone in Kansas was American so far as I know. Those monetary emphases were something Kerry Livgren fought against during the entire 1970s. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: July 06 2010 at 01:27
Good theory! |
Posted By: ferush
Date Posted: July 06 2010 at 12:20
The Beatles, Genesis, Yes, King Cimson, Pink Floyd, Marillion, Porcupine Tree, Jethro Tull, IQ, ..., ... 
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: July 06 2010 at 13:22
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: July 06 2010 at 13:23
They've cycled through everything that can be done. Everyone else is still trying to catch up. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: July 06 2010 at 13:34
So were the Monkees. I think the real answer is that the psychedelic scenes in the US and in London provided the foundation...the extent of cross-pollination between the two scenes, I can't answer, besides speculation based on things like Hendrix touring with Soft Machine, etc.
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: July 06 2010 at 13:39
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American jazz is better than European jazz. I win! ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: July 06 2010 at 13:51
Post of the day? |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: July 06 2010 at 14:54
Maybe, but you don't make polka and musette as we do. Et toc! |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: July 06 2010 at 16:01
I think we're all winners  ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: July 06 2010 at 20:46
| I don't understand why exactly this thread was made. Was this just to hate on American prog? |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: July 06 2010 at 23:25
(Some reports did show it here...)
We have a proverb in my country: Kicked goose always exclaims!
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 07 2010 at 09:13
Actually, I thought it was to contrast and compare.
I was a huge fan as a kid. The movie Head was rather cool. Cameo appearance by Zappa.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 07 2010 at 10:45
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Weird post...really who cares US vs UK??
The first molecule of progressive music is......
 Everything is built around the blues....... -------------   
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: July 07 2010 at 12:17
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UK and US we're pretty neck in neck in prog (but UK has the Canterbury scene which alone makes them beat the US in my mind), but America wrecked in the late sixties psych scene. Theres thousands of unheard of band from America at that time that are all amazing when you actually discover them. America also gets credit for the blues, which is the basis of all good music. ------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: July 07 2010 at 13:18
I have been saying that for years. Here in So Cal in the mid 70's we had several bands playing symphonic prog and none of them ever got a deal. They were all pretty good too. As for Kansas it took the best of three different bands to form one that made it. That and free beer! ------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 05:30
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American prog in the seventies was misarable. Let's face it. Germany, Holland, France and especially Italy were far more productive. They were however good in making metal and progressive metal from the nineties on.
However, often forgotton is the very progressive psychedelic scene of Amerika. Bands like United States of America, West Coast Pop Experimental Band (if remember it correctly), The Doors and many others. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 06:40
Not really true. Santana was at his proggiest in the early '70's. Some of Zappa's finest was made in the '70's, Weather Report, Dixie Dregs, Utopia, Starcastle, Happy The Man, Oregon, Shadowfax, David Sancious, Synergy, Electromagnets, Steve Tibbetts, Automatic Man, The Muffins, Return To Forever, Pat Metheny, Larry Coryell. Granted heavy on the jazz/rock fusion. And I was scrolling down my list, to be sure, UK outnumbers US by something like 4:1 in my collection. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 10:06
The UK may once have been but have you heard much modern prog from the UK? Most of it isnt worth bothering with and though there are several good bands, none of them are particularly unique, apeing their sound and style from both the classic bands of the 70's and the Neo prog bands of the 80's and early 90's. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 10:18
| well GB have their roots in celtic folk music and midle age troubadour music, wile America or US have their roots in raggetime, blues, country, native american songs, I take celtic influence over raggetime any time their is something spessial with the neo-celtic folk influnce blended with neo-middleage troubador music which in the end is the reason I like bands like Genesis, Gentle Giant, Yes, Jethro Tull, Supertramp and Camel, and that is the reason why Kansas is one of my favourite bands becoue of the mix of Britsh and American music influence |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 10:19
Well said!  Gandalff, your opinion of prog rock is skewed beyond belief. Prog isn't just about the 70's anymore! 1970 was 40 years ago! Prog has changed tremendously since then, and to deny the boatloads of quality American symphonic bands (Kansas, Echolyn, Dream Theater, Spock's Beard, to name a few) is just close-minded. Prog isn't about popularity, it's almost the contrary. I really don't feel like dealing with elitists such as yourself...  ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 10:21
It sure looks that way! -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 11:19
Ok, that brings up another good point...USA had the better jazz fusion scene and UK the better prog rock scene, if the distinction makes sense. The prog metal and modern symph sees USA play a more significant role, but could it not be argued that Sweden is the most dominant in that scene? Either way, USA has never been right at the top at any point in prog's evolution though they have produced many great prog artists. In the 70s, it was Britain, France, Germany and Italy. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 11:21
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^ Sweden and USA are both neck and neck in modern prog IMO. In prog metal, Sweden may have the edge, but in symphonic USA has more great bands.
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Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 12:15
Yeah I was noticing how much the artists I listed are JRF and hey now, Soft Machine was obviously influenced by US jazz. I'd agree with that except you seem to be excluding JRF from prog rock. I've been collecting prog regardless of the country of origin, but with an apparent bias to US stuff and apparently an even bigger one to UK stuff. I think the cross pollination of modern music between US and UK has been a great thing for music, prog or not.I should that note that celtic folk music has been an influence on US folk and bluegrass. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 12:17
That's why I myself asked a question whether such a distinction made sense. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 12:18
This doesn't have anything to do with Metalocalypse? http://www.adultswim.com/shows/metalocalypse/index.html - http://www.adultswim.com/shows/metalocalypse/index.html I always got the impression that some of the characters are Swedish or some other sort of Scandinavian area types. I hope Sweden is considered part of the Scandan Navy and I just didn't make a goof. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 12:20
| This is a stupid thread. Who the hell cares? I don't base my enjoyment or standards of music on geographical location. |
Posted By: Progist
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 12:34
I think the original post was about right. Much of the classic prog of old was predominantly UK, but in recent times USA have produced the goods. I am happy whoever makes good music, wherever they are 
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 13:01
Myself I disagree strongly with this distinction, but many people here use it and I can understand their reasons. For me it's all progressive, whether be it of the jazz kind, the heavy rock one, the classical one or the psychedelic one (etc.) |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 13:31
In defense of this thread, I don't get that at all. My enjoyment of the music I like is partly determinant on where I am and where I am from. I've always taken this thread as more of a compare and contrast opportunity. And never having been to the UK, I still find it interesting that UK artists totally dominate my collection. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 14:00
| North American record sales fueled the fire, as for the Byrds/Beatles thing........it was Gram Parsons who influenced England not the other way around, just listen to his song "ain`t no Beatle, ain`t no Rolling Stone, as far as I know the beatles never tried to infiltrate the Nashville scene, the Beatles are the originators of nothing while the Byrds with "sweetheart of the rodeo" are the pioneers of country rock......as a silly aside did you know the original American colonists spoke with British accents, go figure |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 14:50
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Influences go back and forth. All prog music transcends the pond (as well as geology). The Beatles listened to Chuck Berry, Skip James, Carl Perkins and others. All Americans. The Byrds listened to the Beatles, Peter Paul & Mary, and others. The Beatles listened to the Byrds and did some folksey songs. No matter the artist, you will find this sort of thing. Music is not a line; it is a web. Prog belongs to no nation, as music itself belongs to no nation, as it belongs to no one individual. Is Yes prog itself? Of course not. I think everyone engaged in this thread, whether just reading or commenting, should read Plato's dialogue Gorgias, especially the part with Callicles, who changes his answers to Socrates repeatedly to clarify his initial statement. Sound familiar? The problem is that Callicles modifies his position so many times ad hoc, it loses all meaning. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 17:11
Sweden is definatly part of Scandinavia which are the tripod kingdoms Denmark-Sweden-Norway of old the viking kingdoms, the Kalmar union which is basicly this
 it is easy to be confused with the differences between Scandinavian countris and Nordic countris (which is the Scandinavian countris + Iceland, Finland and the Faroe Islands)
Scandinavia as name derives from the old norse or proto germanic origin, which is based on geograhicaly the Scaane (Skåne) district of Sweden (south district) and the Danoland Scandinav, (Daneland).
(if I am unclare on somthing you are welcome to partake the history + linguistic lesson )
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 18:04
| Why thank you. I thought I had that correct but was working off the top of my head, which usually works. |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 18:18
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I don't need to be thanked,
(and I don't ment to do this as a showeoff and not do i think you did not knew this) but I have this thing that I like to help, it's an instinct I have which gives me problems like I have problems saying NO if someone asks for help (or don't ask but are struggeling, wondering or don't remember at the moment), I also have tendsy to say what people are about to say but are slow at remember that exact word.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 21:44
Well, I was rather certain, but not absolutely. Sometimes you just have to be careful. Nice map pic. Sometimes hard to tell the serious thanks from the sarcastic. Mine was serious. So, you guys appear to have the UK surrounded. Now is the time to attack them with music. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 06:40
 Edward Grieg
 Gustav Holst
 Edgard Varése
and many other classical composers.
Everything is built around the classical music.....
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 06:46
| Here's how it goes with prog. The UK tend to be the originators, coming up with novel and intriguing new styles and modes. But it's the US that tend to use more advanced production techniques to refine and improve the sound, and they tend to have a better grip on technicality. Which one is better depends on whether you prefer originality or sonic precision/technical excellence. |
Posted By: Gandalfino
Date Posted: August 01 2010 at 04:13
| UK bands predominates in Top 100. Whatīs more significant? |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: August 01 2010 at 16:36
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Don't forget that both UK and US are civilized and well developed countries (the most, or one of the most), but UK is much more smaller than US. So wouldn't there be like 5-6x more "good" bands in US than in UK if only because of total number of population ? ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 04:48
Before the web bands needed a strong label to be known and labels are used to make business. I think there are few american bands respect to british because prog had a bit more space in UK. The previous decade was full of Blues revival british bands who were trying to sound "American". Beatles have changed the situation and convinced the British labels to invest on the "beat wave". Also, without the iron curtain, we would now perhaps be discussing about Hungary or Slovakia,instead. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 05:35
When good US band, like Glass Hammer are influenced by the great bands coming from UK... ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 06:37
I kind of think of US as poorly developed in a lot of areas. But it really boils down to the UK being more receptive of prog. Over here prog fans may well be fewer in number. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: NecronCommander
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 07:25
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The U.S. is definitely dominating the U.K. in the metal scene, which is all that really matters to me. -------------  
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Posted By: Deleuze
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 07:28
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UK! harsh choice though ------------- 
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 05 2010 at 15:49
Maybe we should go a bit further back and start listing bands that DID influence progressive music ... and make sure you make a decent list of the LA and SF bands ... and ... btw ... even John Lennon was quoted as saying that Frank Zappa was excellent and he loved the stuff ... so ... shall we try this again?
When you get done with the list ... let me know ... ohh, don't forget Santana ... it was quite progressive those first 3 albums ...
Which came first? The Chicken or the egg? ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: cjgone
Date Posted: August 07 2010 at 22:50
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Kansas? ------------- Technical death metal <3. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 07 2010 at 23:08
Kansas. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: August 07 2010 at 23:23
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: August 07 2010 at 23:45
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Posted By: cjgone
Date Posted: August 08 2010 at 00:16
------------- Technical death metal <3. |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: August 08 2010 at 06:31
It's like final argument, music equivalent of nuclear bomb. Simply Kansas. ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 08 2010 at 06:33
Black Oak Arkansas. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 04:21
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Most of my favorite prog bands are British (the classic ones) but it can't be denied that, at the moment, the U.S. (and various other countries) have a stronger prog scene than the U.K.
You might call Porcupine Tree or even Radiohead prog, and they're both British, but to me they seem mainstream rock bands that are obviously influenced by prog. I just watched the ROMANTIC WARRIORS DVD, which convinced me that the U.S. prog scene is alive and kicking, with all those festivals on the East Coast and with bands like Deluge Grander. The only U.K. prog band I'd really call outstanding these days is Big Big Train. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 06:47
This raises the question, why is Kansas pronounced kansas and Arkansas pronounced arkansaw?  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 07:00
I used to pronounce it Ar-kan-sas. In my defence I'm not American and I was very young.  Until a few years back I pronounced paradigm as para-dij-em.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 07:10
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Apparently it derives from the french pronunciation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Rabid
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 12:56
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You can't deny the fact :
Miles Davis influenced EVERYONE, in some way.
------------- "...the thing IS, to put a motor in yourself..." |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 13:12
| Well, this thread flows by gravity, isnīt it? |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 13:24
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It all depends on the genre. When it comes to symphonic, itīs obvious UK is upfront. USA even is "behind" other countrys like Sweden, France and specially Italy. And the same can be said about Neo. But if we take a genre like Avant garde, USA has always (along with France) been at the very top. Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Toby Driver, FRANK ZAPPA, John Zorn, Mr Bungle... ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 15:32
OK apparently that wasn't too challenging, please explain why Mississippi has too many s's, i's, and p's, in it's name... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 15:33
Because otherwise it would be called Misp. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: August 11 2010 at 03:10
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But that's not all!
Why is Missouri spelled Missouri if it's pronounced Mizzoori? (Cf. Mississippi!) Why isn't Michigan spelled Mishigan? (Cf. Jonnie Anderson's notorious mispronunciation on that superb extended version of "America"...) And don't get me started on Wichita; how many foreigners would pronounce THAT correctly if they didn't hear it first? |
Posted By: zappadaddy
Date Posted: August 11 2010 at 03:15
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No doubt,England rules in the world of PROG in last 40 years,lately though there is band form USA which in my opinion is more progressive then the rest of the world - Deluge Grander and Birds of buildings!
------------- My heroes are Frank Zappa,Ozzy Osbourne,The Plastic People of the Universe,Sun Ra and Mirek Wanek from Uz jsme doma |
Posted By: sydbarrett2010
Date Posted: August 13 2010 at 05:55
| its the music that's important its not important what country has better bands what country has more bands im from iran and we have good bands in rock and metal koroush yaghmaei is one of our best rock musicians but can you choose between iran and us or uk ? yes you can but its the music that is important maybe there is just one band in my country but he's good so there is no need to argue about us or uk |
Posted By: peste
Date Posted: October 25 2010 at 10:02
are you sure there's one rock band/artist in Iran? I doubt that.
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 28 2010 at 09:46
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A strange experience if you don't mind..........When I first discovered Progressive Rock in 1970, my first closeminded response was to Rock music.....Well, why do American Bands not sound like this? Later I found out that Deep Purple were influenced by Vanilla Fudge. Then I remembered that all the great British Blues guitarists like Peter Green, Mick Taylor and a host of others were under the influence of B.B. King and Chicago Blues and Delta. Everything started to come together for my idiot response. The British and others from various countries were obsessed with American music. Even bands like Omega.
The difference in the prog sound back then was the social environment affect on European musicians of the Classical background. Not something that took hold on American Musicans as a whole teaching, where Classical dominates rock. America had Virgil Fox and so many others performing just Classical here in the U.S. The American conrtibution to prog derived more from the electronic artists who consulted with Bob Moog. Moog helped these artists with the function of the moog and made suggestions for their plans. Beaver & Krause....In A Wild Sanctuary has prog elements all over the place and in 1970.. The album was a major influence to musicians from the golden prog era. Paul Beaver was a Classical musician and he added in that European style to rock. Gandharva has progressive music that was later influential to Jade Warrior. American Blues music is progressive because during a very rapid shuffle, instruments can go off in a Jazz rampage. It can almost be jazz sometimes with a Blues mentality. Wes Montgomery live with Wynton Kelly trio is the prime example. Many of the long passages played by Keith Emerson derive from this concept in American music. Wakeman too. Rod Argent, Dave Greenslade, Peter Bardens(RIP), and others all played Saloon Bar piano style from the great west and also play blues and jazz. Progressive Rock bands from the early 70's had more of a Classical influence regarding the signature notes played in a Genesis song or the theatrical aspect to stage performances as Supper's Ready is almost like a play and some older prog epics are like opera. Fripp adapted American Jazz style to all the early Crimso releases. His guitar teacher taught him basically how to go about mastering the American sophisticated Jazz style. The Classical style incorporated into the European Prog was not as prominet in America or adaptable in that way or to that extreme.
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Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: October 28 2010 at 14:59
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Technically speaking, both USA and UK are economically / socially similar countries. Well, it's not like comparing Pakistan & Sweden, is it ? Well, UK is 5 times smaller than USA. Is impact of UK 5 times lower than impact of USA ? You know, something similar to number of Prog bands per capita :-), comparing not total impact, but total impact / divided by size of country.
------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: October 28 2010 at 18:25
In a silent way. ------------- |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: October 28 2010 at 18:42
Well that's easy. As of today, there are 761 British bands in the database, and 1224 American bands. Which means 1,6 times more American bands (not far from the golden ratio). British population: 62,041,708 American population: 310,578,000 Which means prog bands are three times more often in the UK.  ------------- |