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Manunkind 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: February 02 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
 Posted: May 14 2005 at 05:31 |
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To get off topic here: you're making a very strict value judgement in the second paragraph and I'm not sure how it's to be understood in the light of the first one. But what's first and formost, how can you defend a view based on such a strict value judgement It's really not about DT; the people here on BOTH sides are taking it much too emotionally and alternating interesting arguments with bad arguments and simple insults. I really want to avoid that. |
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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Syntharachnid
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 703 |
Posted: May 13 2005 at 16:14 |
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Sorry if I've upset somebody. In fact, however, I'm very lenient about what's prog. There isn't much rock music that I will just throw away into a pile labelled "non-prog crap". I was just listening to Tommy, and noting the progressive tendencies on the album. Oh yeah, and I love your idea about throwing all artistic music together under one category of "open minded music". I'm a firm believer in the fact that there are two types of music: that which is truly artistic and that which isn't. Third thing, it seems to me that I have unintentionally made at least two people mad during the course of this thread, so I'm going to leave now. |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21629 |
Posted: May 13 2005 at 15:58 |
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These fights prove that there's something special about Dream Theater records ... they polarize. It's the same as with Floyd/The Wall ... now is that album good or bad? Well, it is both, if you ask me. Objectively, it's a masterpiece ... must be. Every constructive (not entirely emotive, that is) review proves it. The same principle applies to the second CD of SDoIT, although it's "masterpiece rank" is not nearly as profound as Floyd/The Wall, that's obvious. @Syntharachnid: I think that your theory about non-prog metal fans coming here and posting 5 star DT reviews is just not true. I know quite some non-prog metal fans, and they all dislike DT. Maybe it has something to do with how old you are, and thus which bands you grow up with. I don't like Yes and Genesis, but I consider myself a real prog fan. I love King Crimson, from ItCotCK to TPtB, if you will. What I'm trying to say: There is no selection of prog artists you can define and say: anyone who doesn't like that is no prog fan. At the same time, it is not possible to list some artists and say: If you call that prog, you know nothing about prog music. Maybe one day we can throw prog / avantgarde together and just all celebrate "Music for open minds"! |
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Syntharachnid
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 703 |
Posted: May 12 2005 at 22:25 |
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I read the polls Ivan. Phew! That's a relief! Just to clarify, I don't dislike Dream Theater, but I don't love them either. I just think that too many people who love metal, and don't discriminate about what kind they listen to (ie they listen to metal that is not progressive) like them and post about them on these fourms. These people unfailingly seem to be those who have no respect for the real prog rock bands (ie Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, ELP, Supertramp, Jethro Tull, King Crimson, The Moody Blues etc) or the sources of inspiration for these bands (ie Mussorgsky, Katchaturian, Prokofiev, Chopin, Liszt, Beethtoven, Rachmaninov, Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, Charlie Parker, Dizzy Galespie et al). That's what really annoys me. |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: May 10 2005 at 02:19 |
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Useful Idiot said:
It´s not a fight Bryan, it's just an opinion, but some people believe that what they like are dogmas that we all must accept. When there were many threads about ELP, evrybody protested and there was a thread about it named ELP OVERLOAD which is still in the Abuse section and Cygnus X-2 said:
And the difference is that all members here accept ELP is a progressive Rock band, KE9 was blamed with some reason but he was talking about a 100% Prog band. But even he accepted that there are other great bands and albums. Yesterday I felt worst when I saw in the first Prog Lounge page SEVEN (7) threads about Dream Theater. Isn't this worst overload than in the ELP Case? Aren't most of the members tired of Dream Theater? Isn't there a six pages thread about hate against Dream Theater. Like it or not, most progheads including myself don't accept that Dream Theater is Prog' band, and this overload is a form of abuse. I'm a Genesis fan, many are Yes fans other's Jethro Tull fans and you never see such number of threads about those bands in the main page. Not even the ELP overload was as big and abusive as this one, because all you read is how great is Dream Theater, that they are the best prog' band ever, that we must accept that this is where Prog' is going to. It's time to stop this, we come here to talk about PROGRESSIVE ROCK, not exclusively about one band that most members don't like, if this follows soon there will be no room for other threads and many long time members will leave. Iván Edited by ivan_2068 |
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Bryan
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 01 2004 Status: Offline Points: 3013 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 23:51 |
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Turning the DT threads into pointless fights like this one isn't helping anything, Ivan.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 23:22 |
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Most people here is for Prog Rock and not for Prog Metal, check the polls.
Amazing no? 84.12 members of this forum don't like Dream Theater or at least don't consider them a great band. Lets see an ELP poll
What a difference, 76,67% of the voters in Prog Archives believe ELP are Good, very good, reccomend them or strongly reccomend them against 13.33% who believe they are not essential and 3.33% who believe they are the worst band ever. Have you ever read the threads and seen how many people dislikes DT here? By the way, only a few names defend them, the vast majority dislikes them. Iván Edited by ivan_2068 |
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Syntharachnid
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 703 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 22:59 |
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Really? I understood that the reason that most people register in this fourm is because Dream Theater is in the Archives. They are prog, no doubt, but they attract ELP haters like maggots to a murder victim. I don't know why. |
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 16916 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 19:31 |
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It is me but it is you but almost ALL DT ALBUMS have BETTER STRUCTURE than most Prog Rock albums? If Images and Words has "bad" structure or even a word like "bad" can even associate with that album, I think I'll go eat some freshly powdered dog sh*t. |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 14:29 |
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The pot says to the kettle Why Prog snob, because I don't think the natural evolution of Prog is Metal, because I like new Prog bands, because I think DT has no structure or maybe because its's a dogma that Dream Theater is Prog'? If those are your reasons, I'm proud to be a progsnob. Iván |
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henri_ds
Forum Groupie 
Joined: April 17 2005 Status: Offline Points: 81 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 12:06 |
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One word : Progsnob  !!!!! |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 05:54 |
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Cd2 of 6DIOIT is progressive rock in my opinion, and its really great. I even prefer it to SFAM. CD1 is more metalish, but contains some of their best songs. A truly great album in all. Something for everyone. |
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Valarius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 08 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1480 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 03:18 |
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6DOIT is FOOKING AWESOME!!! I love that album so much. "The Glass Prison" is one of my favourite songs!
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eriksalkeld
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2005 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 209 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 01:25 |
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Till now i can't understand why there is so much hatred over Dream Theater, they are great musicians, they make great music, prog or not, and not all their music can be considered metal, but prog, of course it is. If prog is to "break the rules", to be authentic and intimate with music then they are, they were metal-heads before and they couldn't change that, so what? it is surely prog because they are progressing in what metal is, have you heard the musical mess that bands like Slayer, Cannibal Corpse and all that pile of satan oriented headbanger music is? ok then, what do you prefer? Dream Theater is for sure developing a better metal style, and that is progressive for me, "progressive metal" in this case. But by any means, as Ivan said, progressive rock is evolving into prog metal, that's never going to happen, and if it does, it would be a deep shame. Now, about SDOIT, it is one of my personal TOP 3 DT albums (with I&W and SFAM), CD1 is interesting and has some great songs like The Glass Prison and Blind Faith, for this side i'll give 3 stars. But then comes the SDOIT suite in CD2, and now THAT'S a masterpiece, i love it. I made a review about it some time ago. |
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Autenticidad, actitud, pluralidad, espiritu e inteligencia, si es prog bien, si no, tambien.
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Juan
Forum Newbie 
Joined: March 20 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 15 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 00:03 |
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yiauw!!!!!!!1
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Dear Ophelia: in thy orisons may my sins be remembered
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ShaggyMcShagg7
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 03 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 83 |
Posted: May 08 2005 at 22:33 |
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Good album, as is ToT. It's true that both albums are fairly heavy, but it sounds like all of you ToT haters expect an IM&W or Awake clone.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: May 08 2005 at 21:44 |
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This is the Prog Archives Forum, not the Dream Theater forum, 90% people here don't like Dream Theater, why should we have to accept 6 threads (and a couple more in other sections) of a band most people here don't like. There's a Prog Metal Forum, move there all Dream Theater threads, nobody is going to bother you. Iván PS: Just noticed there are no prog sub genre sections any more, I believe we're condemned to continue watching the overflow of DT threads.
Edited by ivan_2068 |
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 16916 |
Posted: May 08 2005 at 21:36 |
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There is no argument, but Dream Theater is definitely a Progressive band. You may not like the way that Progressive Rock/Metal is evolving, then good for you, at least everything does not like the same, old stuff. |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: May 08 2005 at 21:25 |
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People was disturbed when they were 5 threads about ELP, now we have 6 about Dream Theater. At least ELP is one of the greatest prog' bands and has earned that right. Please move all DT threads to prog' metal or better create a section for Dream Theater, so we are not forced to have so many threads about a non prog band. Iván |
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 16916 |
Posted: May 08 2005 at 19:55 |
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About Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, I thought the 42 minute long song is amazingly beautiful and I really loved it, but then the other part of the album wasn't really anything special. Yes, some of the songs on the other disc like The Glass Prison was maybe a bit too heavy for you Prog Rockers, but I have to say it is miles ahead of what Rush has done recently or later ELP. It wasn't much of a change from the "older Dt formula" except the songwriting has changed or somewhat changed. However, I do not enjoy this album as much as the earlier albums Awake or IAW and definitely not as much as SFAM, however it is a pretty good album overall, with a couple of really bland parts, but I can't complain too much. Overall a really interesting and exciting album. The second disc is just a brilliant piece of songwriting. CAN'T WAIT FOR OCTAVARIUM
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Six degrees of Inner Turbulence
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Syntharachnid wrote:
? 
Topic: The Greatest ever
[15.88%]
, I'm not the one starting threads saying Dream Theater is the best band of the world and over flowing a Progressibve forum with threads about a metal band.