Getting estranged from prog

^ this is why I introduced two different tags at PF to describe the "proggyness" ... a) progressive approach and b) prog style. Some bands are either one or the other ... some are both, some are none ... or anywhere in between. And usually, when you grow tired of the typical prog style, you should start looking for modern bands who still use a progressive approach in their music, but may be very different from the original prog bands (Yes, Genesis) in terms of style.

^ My thoughts are, as always, that no one checks out Avestin's (and others') recommendations.

BTW, when prog bands really do adopt a 'challenging', 'anything goes' attitude, the reactions are usually WTF?!!! See KC's "Moonchild"... and Certified's review of it, for a dose of actual knowledge on the subject (a rare commodity)

Prog is the first music I ever listened to, and I fondly remember the excitement I got from first properly discovering bands like Yes, Genesis, Camel, BJH etc. I too don't get any of these new bands that everyone raves about, stuff like Pendragon just sounds like MOR american rock with fiddly bits to me, without anything that made prog interesting in it. As a long-time metal fan as well, I find nothing interesting about bands like Opeth, who I REALLY don't understand the hype of. Second-rate (if I'm being generous) melodic death metal crossed with stolen Camel acoustic parts doesn't make for a great band to me! Also, I find ultra digital, pro-tools fixed recording makes the music sound very sterile, and takes away the spontaneous feel. I find a lot of people seem to be more interested in these new band's musical ability rather than their talents in songwriting and putting feeling and originality into a song.

I wouldn't say all is doom and gloom though, there are still plenty of very good bands to be discovered from the prog heydays, and now and again a real revelation such as Anglagard pops up as well. All musical styles have their times, and more productive and creative periods, but good stuff will always pop up amongst a deluge of crap bands, I think this is the case with all styles of music all the time.

I find myself very much in the same situation. Personally, I think  prog has become a "GENRE" and not an "APPROACH" to music as it used to be. As Steve Hackett mentioned one time, the old bands were not trying to create "prog" music, but music that would challenge them and the listeners, that was inventive, creative, and the best they could compose. Nowadays, bands have to sound "Prog" to be considered prog, which means, they must have a yes, genesis, gentle giant, etc type of sound and elements in their music, along with long pieces, complex arrangements, odd metters, etc.

I cannot always listen to prog;  I also love  psychedelic rock  without any "progressivity"  (Syd Barrett, Dandy Warhols,  Brian Jonestown Massacre)   or singer/songwriter material  (Simon&Garfunkel, Cohen, Mey)  or to simple (alternative)  rock/pop music.

Many  members  in here  have the attitude  that only  music  with strange rhythms,  the highest requirements  and lyrics without any colleration to everyday life  is good and listenable.  The more notes  per second  and the longer  the epics,   the better they are...    I couldn't disagree more.  

Talented songwriters  like Dylan, Barrett, Simon or Harper  can  excite  more  feelings  and  can make the listener  reflect more   than pretty much of the  hardcore proggers  have done during their whole discography.  Of course I love  the  mercilessly unconventional  efforts and  the  way-out  noises of King Crimson,  but for me Simon&Garfunkel  are on the same level -  with probably the total opposed genre,  but with an effect of similar intensity  on me.

The band  that  melts  avantgarde, charme  and beauty  in a perfect way  is  Pink Floyd - and the effect is their #1 position in my top5  band list. 

Nuke wrote: rogerthat wrote: Well, I don't mean emotional in a happy/sad sense, just that something should arouse my curiosity or excitement somewhere. In any case, I look for drama and dynamics in music, not so much direct emotions like sorrow or anger. As you said, any sort of connection will do.  Well then, we are in agreement! Seeing how rare that is on the internet, we should pat each other on the back.

^ of course we could conduct a more specific poll. But still, I think that most people interpreted "if it fits the music" as double bass usage that exceeds the "gimmick" level.

^ I only mean numerically speaking. Almost two years ago The T conducted a poll about double bass drumming:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34853

Only about 4% seem to think that it's simply no good. Now, please let me say it again: I respect those opinions just like those of the majority. But if a newbie came along and asked for recommendations, telling him to avoid double bass drumming might not be such a helpful advice. At least you should mention that most other people have no problems with them.

Trademark wrote: "Why don't we let the others decide which one of us is right and then move on" This illustrates precisely the point I made earlier that you took offense to.  For me it has nothing whatsoever to do with "being right", and everything to do with saying what I happen to believe is true and hearing what others think.  This whole issue is a subjective one, there can be no right.  Where actual issues of fact are concerned its a different story.  Bit this It's about discussion and an exchange of views (opinions).  For you, Mike, it seems that you are concerned more with "winning" or "being right" than with simply stating your views and accepting the views of others, be it about double bass drumming tagging or anything else.  With you it seems to be agree or be wrong, win or lose and its kind of sad.

For the sake of closure, I'll post a final reply to this matter. For reasons unknown you again quoted me wrong ... in that line I wasn't referring to the double bass drumming. I was referring to your accusing me of being hypocritical, and applying different standards to others than I do to myself. Let's not continue this any further here ... what I had meant - and maybe failed to express properly in English - was that I wasn't interested in being a winner or being right. People who were following the discussion can simply decide for themselves which one of us they find more plausible. If some agree with you and think that I'm a hypocritical, self-righteous idiot - then I don't have any problem with that. Personally, I'd like to think that none of us are perfect ... and surely none of us will win any prize in diplomacy for our posts here.

And just to say it one more time: I don't have any problem with accepting other people's opinions, no matter how strange they are. It's when they impose these opinions on others, or try to establish them as guidelines for newbies when they are really an isolated point of view with little to none support in the community ... then I take offense and will always react.

Returning to the subject at hand: When BaldFriede says that she feels estranged from prog, *maybe* it's because of her somewhat unusual opinions about double bass drumming, prog metal, modern production and other things that is making it difficult for her to find modern, prog-related music to enjoy to other than "post-prog" projects of her favorite prog artists from the 70s.

Nuke wrote:   Fair enough. I guess it just takes a bit less to interest me than some people. You're right, I wouldn't have listened to it again if absolutely nothing in it had interested me. I don't think it has to be an emotional connection right from the inception though. I think any sort of connection will do. There was no emotional connection to the schoenberg violin concerto the first time I heard it, it really seemed like random notes. I knew there was some order to it, a very complex structure, so I kept listening to it to really explore that, but I had no emotional connection to it for the first 4 or so listens. So, I guess I agree with most of your post, but I just take issue with the overemphasis on the emotional connection.  I think I go halfway between your "investigative" angle and your "appreciation" angle, because I do sometimes expose myself unfamiliar genres just to pick up ideas, even though I don't have much use for the ideas (although I do enjoy writing songs on garageband and practicing a few instruments). I'm still never judgemental though. If I don't appreciate a song, I merely shelve it, maybe to come back, or maybe not, depending on how I'm feeling.