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Scratchy 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: October 16 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 110 |
 Posted: August 07 2008 at 16:09 |
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Are you trying to say that people who were buying or into Prog bands then suddenly went out & bought Punk records.If so I think you are way off the mark.There may have been a little bit of cross-over but this must have been a small proportion of fans.I think most Punk fans who were into this music was because it was the first time a form of music appealed to them.They might have bought the odd VDGG album etc. but they were never really into this music.I would say Mott the Hoople (or something similar) would have been their favourites before Punk kicked off.I don't think Prog album buyers suddenly then went & bought Punk singles or albums (apart from a small minority).
Heavy Rock/Metal was generally more popular than Punk even when it was at it's heights.During the early 80's Metal gained even more momentum.Punk fans went for a more hardcore style of metal perhaps,while alot of Prog Rock fans went for a more musically adventurous form of metal which formed the basis for the developement of Progressive Metal .Of course you have to allow for a new younger audience as well - perhaps alot of older began to stop buying records/going to gigs,partially as a result of the music press changing/loss of credibility (in Rock journo's eyes) in Prog Rock bands etc.
At present it is hard to work out whether some bands have a Hardcore or Progressive root for their form of metal they play or perhaps nether.The line between punk/prog/metal has become less defined but during the late seventies/early eighties there was definately a clear division.
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Dean
Special Collaborator 
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: August 07 2008 at 14:30 |
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^ they didn't have to - all they had to do was reach the the teenagers who were buying Prog, which they did very effectively.
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What?
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NurseryCryme89
Forum Groupie 
Joined: February 07 2008 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 55 |
Posted: August 07 2008 at 14:18 |
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how could a bunch of talentless hacks ever touch prog?
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: August 07 2008 at 10:38 |
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No, but Andy Partridge is the Man Who Murdered Love.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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fusionfreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 23 2007 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1317 |
Posted: August 07 2008 at 08:58 |
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That's right,moreover I remember Nick Kent giving his point of view about meeting Jon Anderson in the seventies.He said he had been introduced to Anderson by a journalist,he didn't care about him and told him "Now it's very good for you with Tales from topographic oceans but within six months Sex Pistols will come to the fore and it won't be the same for you".He added in the interview(in Rock'n Folk)that he had always thought of Jon Anderson as an entertainer and not a musician.All these journalists wanted to follow the next big thing and this thing was punk with booze,gentleman free manners,musicianship below average except some really good or strong stuff such as Pil,The Dictators,The Clash....pointless political statements most of the time.They must have been in search of hard drugs and some marijuana(reggae musicians learnt punk rockers how to roll a good spliff).Don't believe rock press and find your own path!Dean I can assure you we have the same type of critics in France:Virginie Despentes thinks that one can't love Led Zeppelin and rock in general without drugs(so stupid!) .Nicolas Ungemuth hates prog and spreads the same clichés regarding it and all that is about hippies(lazy people smoking pot,eating rice,playing bad music ) or Patrick Eudeline describing progrock as "the nightmare of my generation".Prog is still alive,not so well but standing tall till the end of times! |
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I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world
of searchers with the help from crimson king |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: August 07 2008 at 05:13 |
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The second wave was not in the public eye in quite the same way as the initial Winter of '76 version, nor did it have the same impact on the Music press, which ultimately was the biggest affect on the Prog movement - it was the journalists (Paul Morely, Jon Savage, Julie Burchill, Jane Suck, Charlse Shar Murray, Caroline Coon, Nick Kent etc) who turned Punk into something far bigger that it really was and turned-off all support for Prog bands.
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
Posted: August 07 2008 at 03:38 |
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... and you could have a second wave of real punk rock in the 1980s there's hardly reason to say that genre only lasted six months.  |
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: August 04 2008 at 14:54 |
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^ I'm not expert on Punk, but hardcore punk is regarded as part of the 2nd wave of UK punk, even if the bands in question were part of the 1st wave, they changed their style and went more "metal". I'd say they were also reacting to the commercialisation of Punk
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
Posted: August 04 2008 at 14:41 |
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Would the hardcore punk of the 1980s - stuff like Discharge, Amebix and The Exploited - count as part of the few the die-hard bands flying the flag you mentioned? |
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
Posted: August 04 2008 at 14:18 |
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The Cardiacs ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Yorkie X
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 04 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1049 |
Posted: August 04 2008 at 01:37 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: August 02 2008 at 08:10 |
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Austrailia produced one of my favourite punk bands at the time - The Saints (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saints_(band)
 I've said this before: the only thing Punk killed was Punk.
In the UK Punk only lasted 6 months before it became commercialised, sanitised and diluted mush as newer bands jumped on the charabanc to pop-stardom to join established bands (eg The Guildford Stranglers) who switched from playing Pub-rock to the "new sound". Once the big labels (EMI, Polydor, Virgin etc.) got in on the act the whole scene became a pastiche of itself with only a few die-hard bands flying the flag, one of the most important being Crass and their breed of anarchic Art-punk, who were one of the first bands to observe that Punk wasn't Punk anymore.
Many of the early punk and new-wave bands have been seriously suggested for inclusion in the PA (The Stranglers, XTC, Magazine, Wire etc.) as they changed their style away from punk in the early 80s and began creating more "interesting" music - that kind of suggests to me that Punk became Prog.
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What?
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: August 02 2008 at 05:38 |
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it went right over my head |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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russellk
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 28 2005 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 782 |
Posted: August 02 2008 at 05:15 |
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Yorkie X makes a point?
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Yorkie X
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 04 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1049 |
Posted: August 02 2008 at 05:01 |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: July 31 2008 at 06:10 |
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missed this post earlier... but brother.... you just earned my coveted 'post of the week' award there with those wise words...so we have it figured out now.... punk didn't kill prog... it saved it....  very true indeed..... it was the like the hyena that either chased the dinosaurs to the high hills of pop music hell... or fed upon the old tough meat of the old prog warhorses. thus after a nice meal of the old decaying crap of mid to late 70's English prog... what did our punk hyenas do... make lots of little hyenas... and call them new wave... and prog was rescued.... if but for a short time before shred happy acne scarred kids discovered that fusing metal + complexity was enough to fool people into calling it prog thus fostering a vicious inbreeding where outside influences were run off and bands duelled to see how unintelligible and meaningless the lyrics could be and how complex.. yet pointless the music could be. *taken from Darwin's On the Origin of Species... vol 12.. prog rock* Edited by micky - July 31 2008 at 06:12 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Yorkie X
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 04 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1049 |
Posted: July 31 2008 at 05:51 |
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Back to page one we go
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Pnoom!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 02 2006 Location: OH Status: Offline Points: 4981 |
Posted: July 29 2008 at 11:58 |
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No, it didn't, but it sure as hell must've been a breath of fresh air. Punk>Prog.
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Scratchy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 16 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 110 |
Posted: July 29 2008 at 00:27 |
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Personally I do not believe Punk killed Prog.In my pre teen years from about 1974 is when I really started to get into Progressive rock (Yes,Genesis & Pink Floyd),although I was not aware of the genre (Progressive Rock at the time - which I only heard of about in 1979'ish which is more or less the time Punk Rock was getting less exposure.New Wave & Mod (The Jam) bands started to grab the headlines at this time.
I think that around this time both Genres had lost imputous.All three of the above 'Prog' bands had already started to streamline their sound to variuos degrees from 1976 onwards,It is debatable whether punk actually influenced this streamlining.Metal started to splinter away from Prog also.i.e.Judas Priest was initially a Heavy Prog band but created a more Industrial sound.It is debatable if this was due to punk either.This new metal was just as influencial on Progs decline as Punk did.The younger heavy rock/metal/prog audience favoured a heavier sound generally,which got heavier & heavier until death metal was created.Ever since then an element of softer sounds have been added to this music because it probably couldn't get any heavier & probably making the musicians a little bit crazy playing it night after night.
I believe when Motorhead was formed is when a punk element was added to metal also.I am not sure whether Hardcore was formed around this period or not or perhaps later.I know alot of NWOBHM bands added an element of Punkish rock to their sound,although most didn't really.One thing I laugh about is that everyone mentions Budgie & Diamond Head as major bands at the time.As far as I can remember they were only had strong support locally (Budgie had already being going for years anyway as A Heavy Prog band in the South Wales area only - I actually saw them live around 1980 period).
Generally I believe that Punk rock & Progressive Rock are genres that are Retro forms of music now.They both belong to a time period.Music can be punkish or be progressive but neither can really truely be placed under the true Genre banner.Today punkish rock surely comes under either Indie or Alternative.If it reverts back to the true Punk sound surely it must be termed Retro-Punk.Alternatively there is alot of progressive sounding music out there,but I would not truely call Progressive Rock.Again if a band gets close to the classic Prog era sound I would call it Retro-Prog.
If you follow my reasoning I would say that both Punk & Prog are both dead.Long live progressive music though (Don't care about Punk really - although I have learned to like some of the marginal punkish (hybrid) groups)
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3449 |
Posted: July 24 2008 at 11:42 |
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Gotta love the irony of it
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So punk killed the prog did it ?
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Toaster Mantis wrote: