...They spit on the face of Rock, No?

Peter wrote: To each his own. Now ask me about  gansta rap, or Death Mental....

...but unfortunately there are some death metal bands in the progarchives

You know, punk isn't bad. Greenday isn't punk, as they claim, they're just emo, and my new signature will clear things up about my opinio on emo and the so-called revolution /breath of fresh air it represents.Punk bropught us The Melvins, who in turn gave us King Buzzo (Buzz Osbourne), who brought us FANTOMAS.  The last decent punk band were, IMO, Nirvan. Since then, no notable band has ever respected the punk aesthetics, if you get my drift

Winterfamily wrote:    Forget Radiohead    Forget Green Day    Listen to Wire

I like Wire,but why do I have to forget Green Day and Radiohead?

Buffalo Springfield:

Don't forget Richie Furray and Jim Messina who went on to found Poco.  Then Messina joined up with Kenny Loggins in the early 70's Loggins and Messina. Very talented band. Had hits with For What it's Worth, Bluebird (Another song Steven Stills wrote about Judy Colllins), Rock and Roll Woman, Mr. Soul, Expecting to Fly and On the Way Home. They lasted about 1.5 years and they were done. 

Peter wrote: Only if "non-standard" equals "better," in music. Blues is (generally) not complex stuff, but it can convey an awful amout of soul, & feeling. That is "better" for me with a beer (or six) than a complex, "difficult" Deus Ex Machina album, say.... My choice depends upon the setting, and the company -- sometimes the head is listening, sometimes the heart & hips. Sometimes, ya just wanna rawk! Interesting debate, folks -- now LET ME GO HOME!

You're skim-reading, me old mucker! I attempted a very brief discussion of the mechanics of how Radiohead go beyond the standard - and it is those mechanics which show thought and intelligence.

I am deliberatly not suggesting that one band is better than the other in absolute terms - my opinion is well known, and anyway, I can only quantify "better" in relative terms.

While I'm perfectly capable of going on all night, I won't take the blame for your tardiness

Nighty-night!

Peter wrote: Certif1ed wrote: I agree with Fuzzy - Radiohead's music is much more from the intellect than Green Day's. GD's music is much more from the "Street smart attitude", IMO, and the same goes for the lyrics. Nowhere on Green Day's new album do they really attempt to break the mould - the chord progressions are standard on the whole, the melodies and lyrics are on the side of cliched, and the arrangements are clean and accessible. Note that none of this means "bad". Cliches in music are necessary - you can hardly write a piece without throwing in a couple of cliches just to keep the piece comprehensible to the average listener. The thought and intellectual application on OK Computer, for example, is obvious in all 3 areas I drew as examples; The chord progressions are not standard on the whole - you can pratically feel Johnny Greenwood pushing at the boundaries of what is acceptable within the rules of rock. Standard rock song formats are all but ignored. The melodies deliberately avoid the obvious, yet are seamless, accessible and engaging. The lyrics are minimalist poetry - I'm very surprised you haven't spotted that, Peter. And as for the arrangements - the four part vocal harmonies in the coda section of "Paranoid Android", the guitar solo on the near side of atonal and the quasi leitmotifs are well in the progressive realms. The build ups and disintegrations are remarkable and verge on pure noise in places - this is anything but standard rock. And yet it works well enough to be a hit single, despite clocking in at around 7 minutes. Is that proof enough? Only if "non-standard" equals "better," in music. Blues is (generally) not complex stuff, but it can convey an awful amout of soul, & feeling. That is "better" for me with a beer (or six) than a complex, "difficult" Deus Ex Machina album, say.... My choice depends upon the setting, and the company -- sometimes the head is listening, sometimes the heart & hips. Sometimes, ya just wanna rawk! Interesting debate, folks -- now LET ME GO HOME!

Ahah! So you admit they ARE more intelligent than Green Day!

Certif1ed wrote: I agree with Fuzzy - Radiohead's music is much more from the intellect than Green Day's. GD's music is much more from the "Street smart attitude", IMO, and the same goes for the lyrics. Nowhere on Green Day's new album do they really attempt to break the mould - the chord progressions are standard on the whole, the melodies and lyrics are on the side of cliched, and the arrangements are clean and accessible. Note that none of this means "bad". Cliches in music are necessary - you can hardly write a piece without throwing in a couple of cliches just to keep the piece comprehensible to the average listener. The thought and intellectual application on OK Computer, for example, is obvious in all 3 areas I drew as examples; The chord progressions are not standard on the whole - you can pratically feel Johnny Greenwood pushing at the boundaries of what is acceptable within the rules of rock. Standard rock song formats are all but ignored. The melodies deliberately avoid the obvious, yet are seamless, accessible and engaging. The lyrics are minimalist poetry - I'm very surprised you haven't spotted that, Peter. And as for the arrangements - the four part vocal harmonies in the coda section of "Paranoid Android", the guitar solo on the near side of atonal and the quasi leitmotifs are well in the progressive realms. The build ups and disintegrations are remarkable and verge on pure noise in places - this is anything but standard rock. And yet it works well enough to be a hit single, despite clocking in at around 7 minutes. Is that proof enough?

Only if "non-standard" equals "better," in music.

Blues is (generally) not complex stuff, but it can convey an awful amout of soul, & feeling.

That is "better" for me with a beer (or six) than a complex, "difficult" Deus Ex Machina album, say....

My choice depends upon the setting, and the company -- sometimes the head is listening, sometimes the heart & hips.

Sometimes, ya just wanna rawk!

Interesting debate, folks -- now LET ME GO HOME!

I agree with Fuzzy - Radiohead's music is much more from the intellect than Green Day's. GD's music is much more from the "Street smart attitude", IMO, and the same goes for the lyrics. Nowhere on Green Day's new album do they really attempt to break the mould - the chord progressions are standard on the whole, the melodies and lyrics are on the side of cliched, and the arrangements are clean and accessible.

Note that none of this means "bad". Cliches in music are necessary - you can hardly write a piece without throwing in a couple of cliches just to keep the piece comprehensible to the average listener.

The thought and intellectual application on OK Computer, for example, is obvious in all 3 areas I drew as examples; The chord progressions are not standard on the whole - you can pratically feel Johnny Greenwood pushing at the boundaries of what is acceptable within the rules of rock. Standard rock song formats are all but ignored. The melodies deliberately avoid the obvious, yet are seamless, accessible and engaging. The lyrics are minimalist poetry - I'm very surprised you haven't spotted that, Peter. And as for the arrangements - the four part vocal harmonies in the coda section of "Paranoid Android", the guitar solo on the near side of atonal and the quasi leitmotifs are well in the progressive realms. The build ups and disintegrations are remarkable and verge on pure noise in places - this is anything but standard rock. And yet it works well enough to be a hit single, despite clocking in at around 7 minutes.

Is that proof enough?