...They spit on the face of Rock, No?
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Topic: ...They spit on the face of Rock, No?
Posted By: Shatterwolf
Subject: ...They spit on the face of Rock, No?
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 15:30
Today at lunch,my friends and I were swapping CD's, when one of my friends, Rob came over. I asked him if he wanted to borrow my Led Zep' CD, and he said alright. Two seconds into "Black Dog" and he said they simply sucked. I couldn't believe it. He said the only band for him was Green Day.They suck. Every "cool" kid in my school likes them,and it totally ruins the bands originality. What's more, soon everyone will forget the classics, and the artists with true talent. Do you guys actually like this crap? I can barely distinguish one note from another, it sounds so bad.
No?
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Replies:
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 15:34
Green Day is horrible. People seem to think they invented rock
opera, because their new album has a loose, poorly-constructed concept.
Say, who wants to read the worst review EVER?
-------
American Idiot will go down
in history as one of the best punk albums ever made. And yet, it almost
wasn't. Shortly after the release of 2000's oddly experimental Warning:,
the world's most successful punk band set to work on their seventh
studio album, one intended to return Green Day to their hard-and-fast Dookie and Nimrod pedigree. As the Bay Area trio worked tirelessly, they dropped International Superhits! and B-side compilation Shenanigans
to sate their fans' increasing hunger. And though frontman Billie Joe
Armstrong and crew categorically deny it to this day, they even found
time to invent "neo-new-wave" with http://music.ign.com/objects/623/623088.html" target="new - The Network's trippy, hilarious debut http://music.ign.com/objects/623/623091.html" target="new - Money Money 2020 .
Then, tragedy struck. In a grave misfortune Bono has come to know all too well, the master tapes of http://music.ign.com/articles/549/549981p1.html#" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb0, 140, 0; background-color: transparent;" class="iAs - Green Day's new record simply disappeared,
stolen from the studio right under the band's noses. It was back to
square one. During a particularly lax day in the studio, Green Day
bassist Mike Dirnt decided to write a 30-second song. Intrigued, Billie
Joe asked drummer Tre Cool to add another 30-second segment to it. As
the musicians took turns adding chunks of song to what had already been
created, they realized that something interesting was going on -- a
sort of "plot" was beginning to develop. The punk-rock opera was
born... and the rest, as they say, is history.
There's a point to this story above and beyond the creation of a
brilliant new art form. Though it may not have seemed so initially, the
theft of Green Day's "lost album" could very well be the best thing
that has ever happened to the band. You see, American Idiot is not a good album. It's not even a great album. No, American Idiot
is Green Day's masterpiece, their magnum opus, the indelible mark they
have left on the music world forever. It is not only the best record of
Green Day's career, but I can say with the utmost certainty that American Idiot is the single greatest album I have heard in my entire life. Your mileage may vary. I, for one, am in awe.
"Welcome to a new kind of tension / All across the alienation / Where everything isn't meant to be okay..." -- "American Idiot" To keep things in perspective, American Idiot
is not your average Green Day album. While previous entries in the
band's canon have featured collections of fantastic individual tunes
ranging from the serious to the not-so-much, American Idiot is
an opera, which means that it is a single, cohesive, dead-serious story
possessed of a distinct beginning, middle, and end. There are real,
human, flesh-and-blood characters who you will come to know and who you
will suffer with throughout the album's . There are tragedies.
Betrayals. Plot twists. American Idiot is a one-hour manifesto on our world.
Yes, these are the guys who recorded an album named after bodily waste.
The same three lads who sang songs about methamphetamine and sexual
self-gratification. If you grew up with Green Day, you're in luck...
Green Day has grown up with you. They've never been this angry, either.
No one is safe from Green Day's 20/20 vision of society. The American
domestic media is given just as much ill will as the nation's foreign
policy. The leaders of our country are no more at fault for our current
state of affairs than the apathetic suburbanite who allows it to go on.
There is no one enemy, no one ally. It's never that simple.
"To live and not to breathe / Is to die in tragedy..." -- "Tales of
Another Broken Home" Our
story begins with the title track, a deceptively straightforward tune
that belies the gravity of the material to follow. Granted, the song
"American Idiot" does have a "single" feel about it, but the piece is
easily superior to most of Green Day's radio-airwave contributions in
the past. Their sound has continued to become fuller and more
well-rounded as time goes on, but thanfully their punk essence has
remained impervious to each successive album's increasingly immaculate
production values. It's a fitting and wholly appropriate prologue to
Green Day's finest hour. Then comes "Jesus of Suburbia." And http://music.ign.com/articles/549/549981p1.html#" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb0, 140, 0; background-color: transparent;" class="iAs - the doors are blown wide open.
"Jesus of Suburbia" is a nine-minute epic suite composed of five
separate and unique pieces -- "Jesus of Suburbia," "City of the
Damned," "I Don't Care," "Dearly Beloved," and "Tales of Another Broken
Home" -- which are expertly blended together with some exquisite guitar
work. It is here that we are first introduced to our protagonist, Jesus
of Suburbia, the disillusioned teenage "son of rage and love." Lost in
a world of confusion, apathy, rage, loneliness, and drugs, Jesus
doesn't come off as the kind of fellow who's going to take our story
home into a warm and rising sun. And yet, for better or for worse, he's
completely relatable, these nine minutes locking you into an empathetic
mindset that persists throughout the length of this man's odyssey.
"Sometimes I wish someone out there will find me / 'Til then I walk alone..." -- "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" After
giving us a sobering glimpse of Jesus' constricted and poisonous world,
Green Day sets it against the intimidating backdrop of the
international theater in "Holiday," their inevitable polemic against
Gulf War II. The song is as powerful and poignant as it is
inflammatory; our President is reduced to the status of "gasman" and
the picture painted of battle is as hellish as one might imagine. The
true power of the song, though, is derived from how our crazy modern
world factors into the lives of Jesus and the other characters we meet.
Green Day forces us to consider not only the casualties of war abroad,
but also those in our own neighborhoods.
The aforementioned image is further reinforced by "Boulevard of Broken
Dreams" and "Are We the Waiting," songs which come across as the
anguished screams of a destitute soul. Not content to relegate their
instrumental oeuvre to the standard guitar/bass/drums that characterize
much of their back catalogue, Green Day brings in a series of new
ingredients to these and the other tracks on the album, actualizing the
pianos, bells, and orchestral inflections they experimented with on Warning:.
These unorthodox expansions serve the music far better this time around
as they have a greater context with which to justify them. It all feels
eerily and brilliantly natural.
"King of the 40 thieves and / I'm here to represent / The needle in the vein of the establishment..." -- "St. Jimmy"
Jesus of Suburbia needs a savior of his own, and it appears in the form of St. Jimmy, a streetwise kamikaze
of a punk who comes off as just as destructive to himself as the
"establishment" he so loathes. Red lights sound off like a million
klaxons as the listener realizes that St. Jimmy may be the final push
that sends the already-vulnerable Jesus of Suburbia over the edge, an
idea which seems all the more valid during "Give Me Novocaine," a
crucial moment when our protagonist seems to latch on to the false
freedom St. Jimmy offers: "Tell me, Jimmy, I won't feel a thing / Give
me novocaine." This track, even independent of the remainder of American Idiot, may be the most beautiful song http://music.ign.com/articles/549/549981p2.html#" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb0, 140, 0; background-color: transparent;" class="iAs - Green Day has ever written.
Our third and final character, Whatsername, is introduced in the
duality of "She's a Rebel" and "Extraordinary Girl." The transition
from the lamentable chords of "Novocaine" to the uplifting riffs of
"Rebel" illustrates that things may be looking up for Jesus after all,
as he finds himself quite taken with Whatsername -- "She's holding on
my heart / Like a hand grenade." The conflict outlined in
"Extraordinary Girl," however, is our first clue that even this
particular brand of salvation is too much to ask for.
"You're not the Jesus of Suburbia / The St. Jimmy is a figment of / Your father's rage and your mother's love..." -- "Letterbomb"
The
demons of the past are conjured in "Letterbomb," and with them, we
realize that everything is crashing down as Green Day hurtles towards
the third act. As with many of the tracks on the latter half of the
record, elements of all that has come before, especially the characters
and the feelings they emote, resurface to give the entirety a
consummate cohesion. Needless to say, not even Whatsername can save
Jesus of Suburbia from his numbing Hell: "She said, 'I can't take this
town / I'm leaving you tonight.'"
"Wake Me Up When September Ends" is our protagonist's requisite dirge
for what could have been. Soaked in acoustic guitars and bells,
"September" is easy to regard as the spiritual successor to Green Day's
venerable ballad "Good Riddance (Time of Your Life)." The band wisely
omitted the names of their characters from this powerful song, choosing
instead to serve us equal doses of American Idiot storyline and universal emotion without having to break down the fourth wall.
"Jimmy died today / He blew his brains out into the bay..." -- "The Death of St. Jimmy
Finally,
the threads of the story begin to be tied up, although not under the
most ideal of circumstances. "Homecoming" is the nine-minute, third-act
parallel to Act One's "Jesus of Suburbia," providing another set of
five mini-songs tied together into a grand suite. St. Jimmy is dead and
we find Jesus of Suburbia, over two decades later, "filling out
paperwork now /At the facility on East 12th Street," completely wrecked
by the events of the story. Sure, he's alive, but as one might
theorize, not by choice. And what of Whatsername? "Thought I ran into
you down the street," Jesus of Suburbia says, "Then it turned out to
only be a dream." The song is an excruciatingly beautiful closer to American Idiot,
and with all the hope that's been sapped from us over the course of the
preceding 55 minutes, we can't help but feel that just enough of it
remains. "She went away and then I took a different path..." Perhaps
she saved him after all.
"I'll never turn back time / Forgetting you / But not the time..." -- "Whatsername"
You will emerge from your experience with American Idiot
physically tired, emotionally drained, and, quite possibly, changed
forever. It is less an album than an experience that demands to be
lived. It is a part of my life now, as well as the most satisfying hour
of music I've ever heard. Nothing else even comes close. In short, American Idiot
is flawless. There's not a weak song, a dull moment, or even the
vaguest sign that Green Day's best days are over. Your jaw will be on
the floor from the first chord to the last.
As you can see, I am passionate about this record's brilliance and I am
honored to give it my highest possible recommendation. So don't just
stand by and watch as this album sets the world on fire. Buy it
immediately and see how great music can be.
-----
This review is FANFICTION!
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection.
Commissions considered.
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Posted By: Shatterwolf
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 15:37
No, American Idiot is Green Day's masterpiece, their magnum opus |
I almost vomited.
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 15:42
Worst part? I used to date the guy who wrote that review.
He had bad taste in EVERYTHING... except me of course, but the
combined bad taste in everything else is why I left him.
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection.
Commissions considered.
|
Posted By: Spanky
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 15:50
Shatterwolf wrote:
No, American Idiot is Green Day's masterpiece, their magnum opus |
I almost vomited. |
I did vomit.
------------- Coalinga knows how to party.
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 16:07
They fart in your general direction....
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 16:08
You're asking people on a prog rock forum - of course we hate Green Day!
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 16:09
Certif1ed wrote:
You're asking people on a prog rock forum - of course we hate Green Day!  |
Not I.
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
|
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 16:09
What's wrong with you guys?
Have any of you actually heard the album? Thought not!
I have a 13 year old daughter,so I can claim to have heard the album at head-splitting volume at least 100 times!
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 16:14
I've heard it several times.
It's sickening.
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection.
Commissions considered.
|
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 16:18
Peter wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
You're asking people on a prog rock forum - of course we hate Green Day!  |
Not I.
|
...except Peter and Tony...
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 16:20
To each his own.
Now ask me about gansta rap, or Death Mental....
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 16:24
Oh dont get me wrong,it is pleasant enough,bubblegum pop music.But pretentions to being a masterpiece of music,are just that!
Though I fail to see what is "sickening" about it?
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 16:31
Reed Lover wrote:
Oh dont get me wrong,it is pleasant enough,bubblegum pop music.But pretentions to being a masterpiece of music,are just that!
Though I fail to see what is "sickening" about it?
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I think maybe they are getting their first taste of the Lester Bangs School Rock Journalism 101. Praise the punk as genius and slap anything that speaks of one actually being able to play an instrument, play more than two chords and using more three drums in your kit. I don't hate Green Day but it is a little disgusting the amount of records (allegedly) they are selling.
-------------
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Posted By: Valarius
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 16:39
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 16:40
Peter wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
You're asking people on a prog rock forum - of course we hate Green Day!  |
Not I.
|
I have no problem with Green Day. I still sing "Basket Case" everytime we go to Karaoke. I'd take Green Day over MariahJenniferBritneyBouncyCherJ-LoMadonna, any day. 
I agree with Garion that their sales cause a high amount of prog-angst jealousy.
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Posted By: alan_pfeifer
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 16:44
I am a bit of a Green Day fan (have their breakthrough album, and their one of the better "Punk" bands out there today.) I may have to hear a bit of it to decide, but I applaud them actually making a concept album.
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Posted By: Dreamer
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 17:07
Black Dog survived for a few decades. I dout some confused teenager is gonna make a difference.
I didnt hear the album, the singles were enough to make me feel terrible. Simply digusting...the state of music, i feel sorry for my own generation growing up with such bad music
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Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 17:42
hmm i always try and introduce friends to new bands (mostly prog on my part) and it works for a lot of my friends, and most know that my cd collection is as big as most record stores (but with less of the crap) so they are constantly blagging my stuff and giving me stuff to check out...
but there is this one guy who is one of my best friends who gets really offended if i try to introduce a new band to him, he is a die hard metal fan who idolises metal but if i ever try to share a metal band with him he will not be happy. its reli weird, if anyone else does it he will gladly allow it but with me its like i am trying to offend him.
He likes metallica so i go, ah check out dream theater, similar styles there, and he has a go at me. He likes in flames so i say, ah check out Opeth, they are also swedish death metal! You get the picture.
He also likes Green Day and hates led zeppelin. Proving that you just cant please em all!
------------- The Worthless Recluse
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Posted By: mirco
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 19:23
Reed Lover wrote:
What's wrong with you guys?
Have any of you actually heard the album? Thought not!
I have a 13 year old daughter,so I can claim to have heard the album at head-splitting volume at least 100 times! | I have one 14 years old and one 12 years old daughters, the oldest one is into whatever-metal (Sonata Arctica, Stratovarious, SOAD, etc) and the youngest is into punk, so I totally simpatize with you...
------------- Please forgive me for my crappy english!
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Posted By: Inferno
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 20:43
Those band are not that bad!!!
SOAD is a great band, I like Stratovarius a Hell lot and Green Day is
one good Punk Band (Probably the only thing I found good in this "era"
of punk with Pennywise, Millencolin...anyway)
You just have to be as open minded that you are for Complicated and Intelligent Music but in the other way Simple music, catchy song and Lyrics that goes nowhere can be good! It's all about taste!
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Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: April 05 2005 at 21:50
abour green day: at least, their guitar sound is pretty good. much much much better than radiohead and alterno bands.
------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>
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Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 00:38

Nice hair, eh?
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 03:00
greenback wrote:
abour green day: at least, their guitar sound is pretty good. much much much better than radiohead and alterno bands. |
I'm glad you differentiate between Radiohead and "alterno" bands, but I disagree that Green Day's guitar sound is better than Radiohead's.
Different, yes.
Better - definitely not! 
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Posted By: antisilence
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 04:24
Spanky wrote:
Shatterwolf wrote:
No, American Idiot is Green Day's masterpiece, their magnum opus |
I almost vomited. |
I did vomit.
|
I Vomited...then gagged...then after all that was over....doubled over laughing
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 06:48
God you guys are so conceited its sickening.You feel so supperior because yuo like "prog".Green Day arent prog so what...Good band anyway...Good album too.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 06:52
Not liking Green Day is not a sign of conceit. It's a sign of not
liking simple three chord two and a half minute punk pop crap.
------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 07:02
Metropolis wrote:
Not liking Green Day is not a sign of conceit. It's a sign of not liking simple three chord two and a half minute punk pop crap. |
I dont care that you dont like 'em. The conceit is the superior attitude of you lot!!!!!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 07:04
We're not arrogant, we're just better than everyone else, its not our fault
------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 07:07
It must be a medical condition
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Dragon Phoenix
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 07:20
Snow Dog wrote:
God you guys are so conceited its sickening.You feel so supperior because yuo like "prog".Green Day arent prog so what...Good band anyway...Good album too. |
My thoughts exactly. I think progrock is the best form of pop/rock music, but that does not mean that there is no good music being made in other genres as well. American Idiot is a great album.
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Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 07:50
American Idiot is a big load of crap.
A hell of a lot better punk rock band: At the Drive-In
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Posted By: mirco
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 07:54
I can't classify American Idiot, because I can't stand punk. Maybe it's an age condition...
------------- Please forgive me for my crappy english!
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 07:58
Snow Dog wrote:
Metropolis wrote:
Not liking Green Day is not a sign of conceit. It's a sign of not liking simple three chord two and a half minute punk pop crap. |
I dont care that you dont like 'em. The conceit is the superior attitude of you lot!!!!!
|
Are you saying that prog and it's fans are somehow pretentious and elitist? 

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Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 08:03
^ what an absurd suggestion
------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: con safo
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 11:05
I like greenday .. the new record is well done, and the concept is very apparent - unless of course you're an idiot.
I dont listen to green day for musical progression, but because its catchy and well written.
-------------
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 11:56
Certif1ed wrote:
greenback wrote:
abour green day: at least, their guitar sound is pretty good. much much much better than radiohead and alterno bands. |
I'm glad you differentiate between Radiohead and "alterno" bands, but I disagree that Green Day's guitar sound is better than Radiohead's.
Different, yes.
Better - definitely not! 
|
I agree. Radiohead is a much more intelligent band.
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Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 13:34
Logos wrote:
American Idiot is a big load of crap.
A hell of a lot better punk rock band: At the Drive-In
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YES! Brilliant comment! Get this man a medal!
Green Day = repetitive and simple riffs, the same song written over with different stupid lyrics (the only different one being time of your life, which verges on being an ok song). Terrible albums, especially American Idiot which is the biggest pile of crap i've ever heard by a punk band, suites? keyboards? trying to be something their not and doing it really badly! And those vocals, the same annoying tone on every single track! I hope they either start writing good music or split up soon, either option is doubtful.
------------- The Worthless Recluse
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Posted By: arkitek
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 13:39
i must admit i dod like green day and have mostof thier albums but that is only because i have grown up listening to them on the music channels and only in the past 2years have i got into the prog genre!
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 13:46
arkitek wrote:
i must admit i dod like green day and have mostof thier albums but that is only because i have grown up listening to them on the music channels and only in the past 2years have i got into the prog genre! |
That's okay. All of us have at least one 'starting band.' Mine... *sighs* was Buffalo Springfield. (I know someone's running a search on them in order to figure out just how old I am)
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Posted By: Swinton MCR
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 13:53
Where Ignorance is bliss.....
I haven't heard of them nor been hearing of them.
Here in my prog-closet........
------------- Play me my song, here it comes again
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 14:05
I believe that to some degree, the stereotype is true: many prog fans are anal-retentive musical elitists. (If they own two CDs, the discs are shelved in alphabetical, chronological and categorical order....)
EG: "I won't mix songs by different bands on one CD, I always play the full album -- I won't listen to a song out of context," etc.
'Tis just who we are -- it's not necessarily a bad thing, but many here seem to have very narrow musical tastes.
Live and let live -- I worry much more about the environment than I do a successful American punk/pop band.
Rail on, fellow passionate, intolerant progholes.... 
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 14:09
FuzzyDude wrote:
I agree. Radiohead is a much more intelligent band.
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Rather a sweeping statement, no?
Prove that, if you would.
"I like" or "I prefer" does not equate with "better" or "more intelligent."
Subjective perceptions don't necessarily reflect REALITY (whatever that is!)
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 14:21
Peter wrote:
FuzzyDude wrote:
I agree. Radiohead is a much more intelligent band.
|
Rather a sweeping statement, no?
Prove that, if you would.
"I like" or "I prefer" does not equate with "better" or "more intelligent."
Subjective perceptions don't necessarily reflect REALITY (whatever that is!)
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I very much doubt my statement has anything to do with your rant against society and it's aesthetic standards.
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 14:38
FuzzyDude wrote:
Peter wrote:
FuzzyDude wrote:
I agree. Radiohead is a much more intelligent band.
|
Rather a sweeping statement, no?
Prove that, if you would.
"I like" or "I prefer" does not equate with "better" or "more intelligent."
Subjective perceptions don't necessarily reflect REALITY (whatever that is!)
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I very much doubt my statement has anything to do with your rant against society and it's aesthetic standards.
|
Eh? Which rant was that?
No offence, Fuzzy, but I just find such absolute statements as you've made above to be basically indefensible. We are taliking about LIKES, not FACTS.
You could be right, but what are the IQs of the individual band members? Do you know?
Dream theater are the best prog band ever" is a subjective judgement, and unprovable, but "Dream Theater are my favourite band" can be proven, or at least accepted as truth.
That's my point -- words like "best" are bandied about too freely here. Nothing personal -- have a nice day!
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 14:55
Peter wrote:
FuzzyDude wrote:
Peter wrote:
FuzzyDude wrote:
I agree. Radiohead is a much more intelligent band.
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Rather a sweeping statement, no?
Prove that, if you would.
"I like" or "I prefer" does not equate with "better" or "more intelligent."
Subjective perceptions don't necessarily reflect REALITY (whatever that is!)
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I very much doubt my statement has anything to do with your rant against society and it's aesthetic standards.
|
Eh? Which rant was that?
No offence, Fuzzy, but I just find such absolute statements as you've made above to be basically indefensible. We are taliking about LIKES, not FACTS.
You could be right, but what are the IQs of the individual band members? Do you know?
Dream theater are the best prog band ever" is a subjective judgement, and unprovable, but "Dream Theater are my favourite band" can be proven, or at least accepted as truth.
That's my point -- words like "best" are bandied about too freely here. Nothing personal -- have a nice day!
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There, you did it again. You're letting the aesthetic tastes of others conflict with your objective view of reality. I assume you have some familiarity with the psychiatric school of behaviorism and it's doctrine of every person being studied by their actions. What you are doing is allowing the human notion of subjective 'taste' and the fuzziness of absolute reality to clash with each other. You're assuming that when someone makes a statement, they automatically believe they are in the right. You are not allowing for ideas such as confusion or misdirection being appropriated in their ideologies. And frankly, I'm offended. That implies you feel I'm a nitwit and that somehow my intellect is merely based on societal limitations, such as ethnocentrically inbred artistic forms and a nationalistic sense of beauty. Because I find a band such as Radiohead to possess more original and pleasing ideas than Green Day is no clear indication of of my opinions on anything remotely requiring 'censum concrete' and I would appreciate it if you would take certain things for granted every once in a while. Otherwise, have a good day.
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 15:03
Sorry to offend you, Fuzzy.
This faceless print medium is inadequate for a real debate -- I really don't assume things about you, stranger, and of course, I KNOW that when people write "best" here they really mean "my favourite."
I'll bow out now. I'm here for entertainment -- not to make enemies of strangers.
As Maani would say, PEACE.
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 15:05
Okey-dokey. Hope we'll get better acquainted in the future.
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 15:09
FuzzyDude wrote:
Okey-dokey. Hope we'll get better acquainted in the future. |
Me too -- gotta go home now, so TTYL -- home computer STILL broken, darn it!
(More reviews soon, hopefully, Maxime! Can't write them at work.)
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Posted By: Shatterwolf
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 15:09
Buffalo Springfield |
Sorry to get off topic, but the other night at supper, my dad was talking about them. I can't remember the name of the song, but they did write one or two hits.
Strange..
-------------
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 15:11
Shatterwolf wrote:
Buffalo Springfield |
Sorry to get off topic, but the other night at supper, my dad was talking about them. I can't remember the name of the song, but they did write one or two hits.
Strange..
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Good band -- Neil Young was in there. Mr. Soul was a "hit" for them.
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 15:23
I agree with Fuzzy - Radiohead's music is much more from the intellect than Green Day's. GD's music is much more from the "Street smart attitude", IMO, and the same goes for the lyrics. Nowhere on Green Day's new album do they really attempt to break the mould - the chord progressions are standard on the whole, the melodies and lyrics are on the side of cliched, and the arrangements are clean and accessible.
Note that none of this means "bad". Cliches in music are necessary - you can hardly write a piece without throwing in a couple of cliches just to keep the piece comprehensible to the average listener.
The thought and intellectual application on OK Computer, for example, is obvious in all 3 areas I drew as examples; The chord progressions are not standard on the whole - you can pratically feel Johnny Greenwood pushing at the boundaries of what is acceptable within the rules of rock. Standard rock song formats are all but ignored. The melodies deliberately avoid the obvious, yet are seamless, accessible and engaging. The lyrics are minimalist poetry - I'm very surprised you haven't spotted that, Peter. And as for the arrangements - the four part vocal harmonies in the coda section of "Paranoid Android", the guitar solo on the near side of atonal and the quasi leitmotifs are well in the progressive realms. The build ups and disintegrations are remarkable and verge on pure noise in places - this is anything but standard rock. And yet it works well enough to be a hit single, despite clocking in at around 7 minutes.
Is that proof enough?

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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 15:32
Shatterwolf wrote:
Buffalo Springfield |
Sorry to get off topic, but the other night at supper, my dad was talking about them. I can't remember the name of the song, but they did write one or two hits.
Strange..
|
They were a folk rock band from the late 60s. They weren't exactly the most talented band around. They only had three albums, and only one of them was really that great. They're famous for two things, though.
a) Stephen Stills and Neil Young were in it. Stills is better known for later forming Crosby, Stills, and Nash, whereas Neil Young is one of those unpredictable dark geniuses they tell crazy stories about.
b) In the 60s, you usually either sang covers or had someone else write your songs for you. There were a few major exceptions (Beatles, Dylan, Stones, Hendrix, etc.), but generally speaking, that was the rule. Buffalo Springfield was one of those exceptions. They were sort of avant garde for their time.
That's all I can remember off the top of my head. But yeah, they were the first band I was into as a kid.
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 15:33
Certif1ed wrote:
I agree with Fuzzy - Radiohead's music is much more from the intellect than Green Day's. GD's music is much more from the "Street smart attitude", IMO, and the same goes for the lyrics. Nowhere on Green Day's new album do they really attempt to break the mould - the chord progressions are standard on the whole, the melodies and lyrics are on the side of cliched, and the arrangements are clean and accessible.
Note that none of this means "bad". Cliches in music are necessary - you can hardly write a piece without throwing in a couple of cliches just to keep the piece comprehensible to the average listener.
The thought and intellectual application on OK Computer, for example, is obvious in all 3 areas I drew as examples; The chord progressions are not standard on the whole - you can pratically feel Johnny Greenwood pushing at the boundaries of what is acceptable within the rules of rock. Standard rock song formats are all but ignored. The melodies deliberately avoid the obvious, yet are seamless, accessible and engaging. The lyrics are minimalist poetry - I'm very surprised you haven't spotted that, Peter. And as for the arrangements - the four part vocal harmonies in the coda section of "Paranoid Android", the guitar solo on the near side of atonal and the quasi leitmotifs are well in the progressive realms. The build ups and disintegrations are remarkable and verge on pure noise in places - this is anything but standard rock. And yet it works well enough to be a hit single, despite clocking in at around 7 minutes.
Is that proof enough?

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Only if "non-standard" equals "better," in music.
Blues is (generally) not complex stuff, but it can convey an awful amout of soul, & feeling.
That is "better" for me with a beer (or six) than a complex, "difficult" Deus Ex Machina album, say....
My choice depends upon the setting, and the company -- sometimes the head is listening, sometimes the heart & hips.
Sometimes, ya just wanna rawk!
Interesting debate, folks -- now LET ME GO HOME!
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 15:35
Certif1ed wrote:
I agree with Fuzzy - Radiohead's music is much more from the intellect than Green Day's. GD's music is much more from the "Street smart attitude", IMO, and the same goes for the lyrics. Nowhere on Green Day's new album do they really attempt to break the mould - the chord progressions are standard on the whole, the melodies and lyrics are on the side of cliched, and the arrangements are clean and accessible.
Note that none of this means "bad". Cliches in music are necessary - you can hardly write a piece without throwing in a couple of cliches just to keep the piece comprehensible to the average listener.
The thought and intellectual application on OK Computer, for example, is obvious in all 3 areas I drew as examples; The chord progressions are not standard on the whole - you can pratically feel Johnny Greenwood pushing at the boundaries of what is acceptable within the rules of rock. Standard rock song formats are all but ignored. The melodies deliberately avoid the obvious, yet are seamless, accessible and engaging. The lyrics are minimalist poetry - I'm very surprised you haven't spotted that, Peter. And as for the arrangements - the four part vocal harmonies in the coda section of "Paranoid Android", the guitar solo on the near side of atonal and the quasi leitmotifs are well in the progressive realms. The build ups and disintegrations are remarkable and verge on pure noise in places - this is anything but standard rock. And yet it works well enough to be a hit single, despite clocking in at around 7 minutes.
Is that proof enough?

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Better than I could have described it!
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 15:37
Peter wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
I agree with Fuzzy - Radiohead's music is much more from the intellect than Green Day's. GD's music is much more from the "Street smart attitude", IMO, and the same goes for the lyrics. Nowhere on Green Day's new album do they really attempt to break the mould - the chord progressions are standard on the whole, the melodies and lyrics are on the side of cliched, and the arrangements are clean and accessible.
Note that none of this means "bad". Cliches in music are necessary - you can hardly write a piece without throwing in a couple of cliches just to keep the piece comprehensible to the average listener.
The thought and intellectual application on OK Computer, for example, is obvious in all 3 areas I drew as examples; The chord progressions are not standard on the whole - you can pratically feel Johnny Greenwood pushing at the boundaries of what is acceptable within the rules of rock. Standard rock song formats are all but ignored. The melodies deliberately avoid the obvious, yet are seamless, accessible and engaging. The lyrics are minimalist poetry - I'm very surprised you haven't spotted that, Peter. And as for the arrangements - the four part vocal harmonies in the coda section of "Paranoid Android", the guitar solo on the near side of atonal and the quasi leitmotifs are well in the progressive realms. The build ups and disintegrations are remarkable and verge on pure noise in places - this is anything but standard rock. And yet it works well enough to be a hit single, despite clocking in at around 7 minutes.
Is that proof enough?

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Only if "non-standard" equals "better," in music.
Blues is (generally) not complex stuff, but it can convey an awful amout of soul, & feeling.
That is "better" for me with a beer (or six) than a complex, "difficult" Deus Ex Machina album, say....
My choice depends upon the setting, and the company -- sometimes the head is listening, sometimes the heart & hips.
Sometimes, ya just wanna rawk!
Interesting debate, folks -- now LET ME GO HOME!
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Ahah! So you admit they ARE more intelligent than Green Day!
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 15:45
FuzzyDude wrote:
Peter wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
Is that proof enough?
|
Only if "non-standard" equals "better," in music.
Blues is (generally) not complex stuff, but it can convey an awful amout of soul, & feeling.
That is "better" for me with a beer (or six) than a complex, "difficult" Deus Ex Machina album, say....
My choice depends upon the setting, and the company -- sometimes the head is listening, sometimes the heart & hips.
Sometimes, ya just wanna rawk!
Interesting debate, folks -- now LET ME GO HOME!
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Ahah! So you admit they ARE more intelligent than Green Day!
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I do? They LIKELY are, but only their psychologists know for sure.
But yeah, from the little I've heard, RH's output is more cerebral, but it just doesn't grab me like some GD songs do.
Bye now!
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
|
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 16:03
Peter wrote:
Only if "non-standard" equals "better," in music.
Blues is (generally) not complex stuff, but it can convey an awful amout of soul, & feeling.
That is "better" for me with a beer (or six) than a complex, "difficult" Deus Ex Machina album, say....
My choice depends upon the setting, and the company -- sometimes the head is listening, sometimes the heart & hips.
Sometimes, ya just wanna rawk!
Interesting debate, folks -- now LET ME GO HOME!
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You're skim-reading, me old mucker! I attempted a very brief discussion of the mechanics of how Radiohead go beyond the standard - and it is those mechanics which show thought and intelligence.
I am deliberatly not suggesting that one band is better than the other in absolute terms - my opinion is well known, and anyway, I can only quantify "better" in relative terms.
While I'm perfectly capable of going on all night, I won't take the blame for your tardiness 
Nighty-night!
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 16:14
Certif1ed wrote:
Peter wrote:
Only if "non-standard" equals "better," in music.
Blues is (generally) not complex stuff, but it can convey an awful amout of soul, & feeling.
That is "better" for me with a beer (or six) than a complex, "difficult" Deus Ex Machina album, say....
My choice depends upon the setting, and the company -- sometimes the head is listening, sometimes the heart & hips.
Sometimes, ya just wanna rawk!
Interesting debate, folks -- now LET ME GO HOME!
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You're skim-reading, me old mucker! I attempted a very brief discussion of the mechanics of how Radiohead go beyond the standard - and it is those mechanics which show thought and intelligence. Anyone can string 3 chords together - I often do, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it shows a little lack of thought. I know - that's why I do it It shows no lack of soul or feeling, however - but writing from the heart is different to writing from the head; it's generally easier.
I am deliberatly not suggesting that one band is better than the other in absolute terms - my opinion is well known, and anyway, I can only quantify "better" in relative terms.
While I'm perfectly capable of going on all night, I won't take the blame for your tardiness 
Nighty-night!
| Point well taken -- though I DID read all of your erudite post. (Perhaps with the wrong side of the ol' cerebrum, though....
BTW, your wife may be glad to hear that ^, oh tantric one, but I doubt your father-in-law will! 
Ha! Thought I was gone, didn't you?
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 16:41
Buffalo Springfield:
Don't forget Richie Furray and Jim Messina who went on to found Poco. Then Messina joined up with Kenny Loggins in the early 70's Loggins and Messina. Very talented band. Had hits with For What it's Worth, Bluebird (Another song Steven Stills wrote about Judy Colllins), Rock and Roll Woman, Mr. Soul, Expecting to Fly and On the Way Home. They lasted about 1.5 years and they were done.
-------------
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 06 2005 at 18:45
Garion81 wrote:
Buffalo Springfield:
Don't forget Richie Furray and Jim Messina who went on to found Poco. Then Messina joined up with Kenny Loggins in the early 70's Loggins and Messina. Very talented band. Had hits with For What it's Worth, Bluebird (Another song Steven Stills wrote about Judy Colllins), Rock and Roll Woman, Mr. Soul, Expecting to Fly and On the Way Home. They lasted about 1.5 years and they were done.
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Now I suddenly need to find a copy of Buffalo Springfield Again again. *hums Mr. Soul to himself*
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Posted By: Winterfamily
Date Posted: April 07 2005 at 12:17
Forget Radiohead
Forget Green Day
Listen to Wire
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Posted By: Shatterwolf
Date Posted: April 07 2005 at 14:38
You know what's even worse then Green Day?
GC, Simple Plan....
-------------
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 07 2005 at 14:42
Winterfamily wrote:
Forget Radiohead
Forget Green Day
Listen to Wire
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I like Wire,but why do I have to forget Green Day and Radiohead?
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 08 2005 at 08:29
Peter wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
While I'm perfectly capable of going on all night, I won't take the blame for your tardiness 
Nighty-night!
| Point well taken -- though I DID read all of your erudite post. (Perhaps with the wrong side of the ol' cerebrum, though....
BTW, your wife may be glad to hear that ^, oh tantric one, but I doubt your father-in-law will! 
Ha! Thought I was gone, didn't you?
|
I'm not married yet...
But I will be in June 
...and jealousy will get you nowhere... 
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Posted By: Captain Fudge
Date Posted: April 08 2005 at 09:10
You know, punk isn't bad. Greenday isn't punk, as they claim, they're just emo, and my new signature will clear things up about my opinio on emo and the so-called revolution /breath of fresh air it represents.Punk bropught us The Melvins, who in turn gave us King Buzzo (Buzz Osbourne), who brought us FANTOMAS . The last decent punk band were, IMO, Nirvan. Since then, no notable band has ever respected the punk aesthetics, if you get my drift
-------------
Teenage sucks hard -- Emo sucks even harder
Epic. Simply epic.
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Posted By: John Gargo
Date Posted: April 08 2005 at 09:54
This Rock fellow must be a pretty big jerk if all these guys keep spitting in his face.
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Posted By: Ben2112
Date Posted: April 08 2005 at 14:28
John Gargo wrote:
This Rock fellow must be a pretty big jerk if all these guys keep spitting in his face. |
Yeah, I think spitting in the face of The Rock would be a very bad idea. The last thing you would ever see would be the People's Eyebrow, and then just blackness.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 08 2005 at 14:39
Green Day are wimps! I can't frikin' stand any punk. I also hate emo and the fashion associated with it.
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Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: April 08 2005 at 15:10
Peter wrote:
To each his own.
Now ask me about gansta rap, or Death Mental....
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...but unfortunately there are some death metal bands in the progarchives
-------------
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Posted By: John Gargo
Date Posted: April 08 2005 at 15:42
Progressive death metal certainly deserves to be in the archives, because they have more in common with prog rock than they do traditional death metal.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 08 2005 at 16:05
I think all new and exciting music is by definition alternative. I mean, come on!! There's no way you can convince me Green Day is more alternative than, oh I don't know, Syd Barrett or King Crimson. Noone wakes up and says to himself, 'Man, this Peter Gabriel guy is a f**king sissy with his undead child molestors and medieval blood baths... I want something alternative... gimme that Simple Plan CD, bitch!'
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 09 2005 at 02:24
FuzzyDude wrote:
I think all new and exciting music is by definition alternative. I mean, come on!! There's no way you can convince me Green Day is more alternative than, oh I don't know, Syd Barrett or King Crimson. Noone wakes up and says to himself, 'Man, this Peter Gabriel guy is a f**king sissy with his undead child molestors and medieval blood baths... I want something alternative... gimme that Simple Plan CD, bitch!'
|
Wha da??? A little FUZZY there, Dude....
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
|
Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: April 09 2005 at 10:00
A friend of mine told me she liked the new Green Day album because it reminded her of songs and albums from her youth (in the 70s) which told a story. This is not a teen, or even a desperately trendy 20 or 30-something...this is a woman in her 40s whose tastes are typically mature and open-minded.
I'm a lot less generous with my opinions in real life, so I didn't treat her to my overwhelmingly negative criticisms of the band and album. But it made me think, anyway. 
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi">
|
Posted By: Jeshua
Date Posted: April 09 2005 at 10:43
Shatterwolf wrote:
Today at lunch,my friends and I were swapping
CD's, when one of my friends, Rob came over. I asked him if he wanted
to borrow my Led Zep' CD, and he said alright. Two seconds into "Black
Dog" and he said they simply sucked. I couldn't believe it. He said the
only band for him was Green Day.They suck. Every "cool" kid in my
school likes them,and it totally ruins the bands originality. What's
more, soon everyone will forget the classics, and the artists with true
talent. Do you guys actually like this crap? I can barely distinguish
one note from another, it sounds so bad.
No? |
Going off with this point, myfriends like some pretty good stuff (Led
Zeppelin, The Beatles, Queen) and lots of other old stuff. In my school
i was thinking kids started liking old stuff more. I don't know it
might just be me. Oh and that review is ridiculous, if he had been
living for at least 25 years you think his taste in music may have
progressed past Green Day...
------------- Fast car, on the highway, on the biway, Mr. Robotron -Mr . Devil
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: April 09 2005 at 16:30
Reed Lover wrote:
What's wrong with you guys?
Have any of you actually heard the album? Thought not!
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I downloaded the two (three?) longish tracks from it, in the hope that it was some form of revelation. It was slightly interesting for one or two listens, but ultimately very similar to any other Green Day song, but longer and with the odd time signature changeup (i think).
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: April 09 2005 at 16:35
Captain Fudge wrote:
You know, punk isn't bad. Greenday isn't punk, as they claim, they're just emo, and my new signature will clear things up about my opinio on emo and the so-called revolution /breath of fresh air it represents.Punk bropught us The Melvins, who in turn gave us King Buzzo (Buzz Osbourne), who brought us FANTOMAS . The last decent punk band were, IMO, Nirvan. Since then, no notable band has ever respected the punk aesthetics, if you get my drift
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Green Day is nothing to do with emo! Emo's usually has screamy vocals and heavy playing, a la Rites of Spring, or even dry, drawn out arty writing like Drive Like Jehu and hasn't had any popular bands since 1995 or so!
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Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: April 09 2005 at 18:49
I saw on the cover of a recent "Entertainment Weekly:"
"GREEN DAY SAVE ROCK."
From Entertainmentweekly.com:
Jolly Green Giants
How Green Day saved rock -- and their own career. The elder statesmen of pop-punk talk about longevity, Grammys, and crafting their smartest album yet: ''American Idiot'' by Tom Sinclair
|
var mainImgWidth="400";

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FRUITFUL EFFORT With ''American Idiot,'' Dirnt, Cool, and Armstrong have rocketed to the top of the charts.
|
I vomited.
|
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Posted By: pakish
Date Posted: April 09 2005 at 19:18
Waht's the matter with Green Day?
They're as good as MTV
Or Britney Spears 
JAJAJAJAJAJAJA
------------- TOEFL in latin america = neolanguage
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 09 2005 at 20:14
Peter wrote:
FuzzyDude wrote:
I think all new and exciting music is by definition alternative. I mean, come on!! There's no way you can convince me Green Day is more alternative than, oh I don't know, Syd Barrett or King Crimson. Noone wakes up and says to himself, 'Man, this Peter Gabriel guy is a f**king sissy with his undead child molestors and medieval blood baths... I want something alternative... gimme that Simple Plan CD, bitch!'
|
Wha da??? A little FUZZY there, Dude....
|
Well, I might be going a bit overboard... but I'm sure I score points for imagination!
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 09 2005 at 20:15
Arsillus wrote:
I saw on the cover of a recent "Entertainment Weekly:"
"GREEN DAY SAVE ROCK."
From Entertainmentweekly.com:
Jolly Green Giants
How Green Day saved rock -- and their own career. The elder statesmen of pop-punk talk about longevity, Grammys, and crafting their smartest album yet: ''American Idiot'' by Tom Sinclair
|
var mainImgWidth="400";

|
FRUITFUL EFFORT With ''American Idiot,'' Dirnt, Cool, and Armstrong have rocketed to the top of the charts.
|
I vomited.
|
|
Aha! So the Mars Volta aren't REALLY the saviours of rock after all!
|
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: April 09 2005 at 23:09
FuzzyDude wrote:
Arsillus wrote:
I saw on the cover of a recent "Entertainment Weekly:"
"GREEN DAY SAVE ROCK."
From Entertainmentweekly.com:
Jolly Green Giants
How Green Day saved rock -- and their own career. The elder statesmen of pop-punk talk about longevity, Grammys, and crafting their smartest album yet: ''American Idiot'' by Tom Sinclair
|
var mainImgWidth="400";

|
FRUITFUL EFFORT With ''American Idiot,'' Dirnt, Cool, and Armstrong have rocketed to the top of the charts.
|
I vomited.
|
|
Aha! So the Mars Volta aren't REALLY the saviours of rock after all!
|

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Posted By: Jim Prog Wizard
Date Posted: April 10 2005 at 15:35
It really gets to me when prog fans are denounced as arrogant and
elitest for saying that they think a particular type of non-prog music
is sh*t. We're all entitled to our own opinions.
Personally, Green Day don't do anything for me at all, musically
speaking. I like some stuff from the hip-hop, folk, jazz and
blues worlds, but nothing I've heard from such artists (for the most
part) has ever affected me in the same way that the "prog" bands I
listen to have. To me, they are superior both intellectually and
musically, but that's just me. Does this make me a snob?
No, only human.
------------- "Progressive Rock is the ultimate form of music" (Mikael Akerfeldt, 2003)
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 10 2005 at 15:39
Jim Prog Wizard wrote:
It really gets to me when prog fans are denounced as arrogant and elitest for saying that they think a particular type of non-prog music is sh*t. We're all entitled to our own opinions.
Personally, Green Day don't do anything for me at all, musically speaking. I like some stuff from the hip-hop, folk, jazz and blues worlds, but nothing I've heard from such artists (for the most part) has ever affected me in the same way that the "prog" bands I listen to have. To me, they are superior both intellectually and musically, but that's just me. Does this make me a snob? No, only human.
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Well, we are arrogant and elitist.
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: April 10 2005 at 15:41
I'm elitist, but not in terms of prog. For me to like something it usually has to have something considerably original/unique. Apart from lots of drone and funeral doom metal, which for some reason I like regardless.
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Posted By: Rob The Plant
Date Posted: April 10 2005 at 15:48
Next time someone insults Led Zeppelin like that, kick them in the groin very hard so they can't reproduce.
------------- Collaborators will take your soul.
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Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: April 10 2005 at 22:06
Prog is more obviously appealing to those of us who like to evaluate...as a group, we're probably more focused on the musicians' skills than many music fans. This approach does tend to make us more appreciative, on possibly a deeper level, but it can also lead us to believe that skill and complexity is more important than the ultimate effect of the work.
Personally, I believe that objectively "better" music doesn't always have to be your "preferred" music. You can appreciate a well-done work without having any real personal enjoyment. You can also dislike something which is obviously superior in construction but doesn't do for you what you want a work of music to do.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi">
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 11 2005 at 01:07
James Lee wrote:
Prog is more obviously appealing to those of us who like to evaluate...as a group, we're probably more focused on the musicians' skills than many music fans. This approach does tend to make us more appreciative, on possibly a deeper level, but it can also lead us to believe that skill and complexity is more important than the ultimate effect of the work.
Personally, I believe that objectively "better" music doesn't always have to be your "preferred" music. You can appreciate a well-done work without having any real personal enjoyment. You can also dislike something which is obviously superior in construction but doesn't do for you what you want a work of music to do.
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Very, very true. My wise and beautiful wife has a saying for this.
"Too much w**kery doesn't acheieve anything if you can't get off to it."
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Posted By: con safo
Date Posted: April 11 2005 at 01:13
Whiners.
-------------
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: April 11 2005 at 03:50
This thread is a fine example of not judging a book by it's cover; I've always avoided reading this thread due to it's title, but I thought I'd give it a quick look, and it turns out to be a fine, well mannered, and occasionally funny debate...
I remember those!
Well done everyone, keep it up - if I can think of anything vaguely intelligent to say on the subject, I shall chip in.
Mind you, Green Day's vocalist really wants to sound like the chap from The Levellers...
-------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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