music theory general knowledge exchange

Just a test If I understood:

1- If i'm doing a riff in C major dorian, I will not play the tonic if I do a C chord and C is the lower note. Will I replace the C by a D ?
2- The chord D minor ( second degree in major scale is minor ), will be an usefull chord to get the feel of dorian mode.
3- We can have a C major dorian mode but D minor dorian mode too, by using modes, we can get "simillar scales".

***for dargdead*** Why, if I flat the 7th note in minor scale it becomes dorian? Is there another order for the minor scale, modes are differents? Differents positions?

P.s Thx for your help everybody!

Yann wrote: But how do you apply theses modes?

hmmm...not sure what you mean. apply them...well, you use them just like any other scale. knowing them also enables you to solo in the major scale (or in any other mode technically) all the way up the neck. For example, you're going to solo in, say g major. You know the 'box pattern' of the g major scale, but you want to go further up the neck...to 'uncharted' frets. well, utilize the second 'starting position', which happens to be the dorian mode. You would then be moved up to a/fret 5. It is a continuation of the major scale, which is generally considered the 'parent scale' for all of the modes. You could then proceed through every mode, while remaining within the major scale. Only once you have made the first note in a different starting position the root, will you be 'in that mode'. so the function of the modes is to enable you to play in any scale (as they all have modes) all up and down the fretboard. each mode shows the hidden moods in a scale as well. They're like the different personalities in any one person. ex: monday (first starting position) you feel happy. Tuesday (second starting position) you feel a little different, kinda sad maybe etc., but these moods are all happening in the same person ultimately. And remember, the starting positions are derived from the major scale itself, but are usually played on low e (string 6).

But how do you apply theses modes?

Yann wrote: What is the utility when you play (for example), in dorian mode, major scale? You start by D, but, is there any utility? I never understood about it....Thanks for explanation Edit: My teacher told to me, years ago, that the goal of "Modes" is to give another....."sensation". For example, in dorian mode, you will emphase on the D note and will add a certain....."feel" but I don't know how to get that feel, for me, it still a major scale...

Here's the secret man...every mode has one note that gives the mode its 'flavour'. That's the key to bringing out the modes character. Emphasise the roots, and the 'character note' as i'll call it. For example, the 6th note (if I recall correctly) is the character note in the dorian mode. You can also derive chords from this principle (which I came up with on my own!) some modes are more obvious in where their character lies, like the lydian mode, who's character note is the fourth note of the scale.

What is the utility when you play (for example), in dorian mode, major scale? You start by D, but, is there any utility? I never understood about it....Thanks for explanation

Edit: My teacher told to me, years ago, that the goal of "Modes" is to give another....."sensation". For example, in dorian mode, you will emphase on the D note and will add a certain....."feel" but I don't know how to get that feel, for me, it still a major scale...


Edited by Yann - June 21 2007 at 09:04

THE_POLE wrote: Ok, so is there a scale/mode then that would allow me to write music wiith a european folky(scandinavian in particular) feel to it? I mean, it's easy to write blues melodies on a blues scale, but not knowing it it's a little more difficult because you have to work out yourself what intervals make a melody sound bluesy. Do folky melodies work in a similar way? What about middle eastern folk? I'm attempting to write music influenced by a lot of folk metal that i listen to, but i'm having trouble getting the melodies to sound right.

purplepiper wrote: lydian-major-melacholic/enigmatic/mysterious

The modes are divided into "major" or "minor" modes based on whether the third of the mode is major or minor. The major modes are Ionian, Lydian and Myxolydian, the minor modes are Dorian Aeolian, Phrygian and Locrian. As far as moods go, it's not really that simple. Phrygian has a "Spanish" feel to it and Lydian is enigmatic. I guess Mixolydian could be called "bluesy" but a lot depends on how they are played. The blues scale is not a mode, because it contains an entirely different set of intervals than the major scale. It is also only six notes, being 1-b3-4-#4-5-b7 of the key.

The Medieval modes are the same as the modes we have been talking about, except that they were further divdied up based on the highest and lowest note in the melody. For example, a medieval Dorian melody would have its highest and lowest note on or around D. One that used the same intervals but but had its highest and lowest note on or around A (the fifth) would be called Hypodorian.

EDIT: to correct factual errors.


Edited by thellama73 - June 20 2007 at 12:42

An arpeggio is a chord played in horizontal (musical) space rather than vertical. In other words, it is the notes of a chord played one after the other, not at the same time. Since any combination of three or more notes is a chord, technically any melodic line could be called an arpeggio, but that's not what is usually meant.

Dissonance is an arbitrary concept that has changed throughout the years. It refers to the complexity of the waveforms of sound and how two or more pitches interact with each other. In Medieval times, anything other than a perfect fifth, perfect fourth, octave and unison was considered dissonant. As time went on, thirds and sixths became acceptable and today even major seconds sound fine to most of us.

Harmony between notes is basically the same thing. The frequencies of different pitches interfere with each other and we perceive this more complex sound as harmony. For example, A below middle C has a frequency of 440 hertz. The A above that is twice that frequency, 880 hertz. When two frequencies are combined, the ratio between them determines the harmony. A ratio of 2-1 as above is very simple and sounds as an octave, not really harmony. The E above middle C is approximately 660 hertz, and so has a ratio of 3-2 with the A below. This creates a perfect fifth. The more complex these ratios, the more "dissonant" the harmony.

I just know what I read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_tuning

It sounds interesting.