Double-bass drumming...

BaldFriede wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: BaldFriede wrote: I don't dislike metal per se; Jean and I really enjoyed Heaven's Cry. But that doesn't make me close my eyes and ears to some of the attitudes which are around, especially in metal (in some jazz-rock too, by the way. And I detect a lot of it in ELP). It is these attitudes and mannerisms Jean and I criticize, not the genre as a whole. Heaven's Cry seem to be an example that there can be music without these attitudes in the genre. And one of the most obnoxious of these attitudes is double bass-drumming, in my opinion. "Yeah, great leg muscles you have, Mr. double bass-drummer; let me give you a (CENSORED)". Sorry, but this isn't funny or tongue in cheek ... it's just offensive and rude. I don't think so, Mike. It is the main intention behind all exaggerated virtuoso playing, whether you like it or not. A kind of courtship dance. Male impression behavior. I put it rudely, but only to demonstrate what is behind it. And don't tell me it ain't so; where do you think all the groupies come from? It is not for nothing that exaggerated virtuoso playing is called "instrumental w***ery".

This is just disgusting and makes me want to puke my guts out ... seriously. You are on a crusade against music with this kind of attitude ... you're against everything the progressive music movement stands for. Granted, some musicians like to show off, and some might do it to "get laid", but you cannot say that the more virtuosic someone is playing, the worse the music becomes. And for the record: Not every metal musician is out to rape you.

Yes.

Like anything that's done right, can enhance the listening experience. But it can also be a safety net for less talented drummers to hide behind.

BaldFriede wrote: I don't dislike metal per se; Jean and I really enjoyed Heaven's Cry. But that doesn't make me close my eyes and ears to some of the attitudes which are around, especially in metal (in some jazz-rock too, by the way. And I detect a lot of it in ELP). It is these attitudes and mannerisms Jean and I criticize, not the genre as a whole. Heaven's Cry seem to be an example that there can be music without these attitudes in the genre. And one of the most obnoxious of these attitudes is double bass-drumming, in my opinion. "Yeah, great leg muscles you have, Mr. double bass-drummer; let me give you a (CENSORED)".

Sorry, but this isn't funny or tongue in cheek ... it's just offensive and rude.

I enjoy it when it fits the music. Too fast Drumming is a turn-off.

I don't dislike metal per se; Jean and I really enjoyed Heaven's Cry. But that doesn't make me close my eyes and ears to some of the attitudes which are around, especially in metal (in some jazz-rock too, by the way. And I detect a lot of it in ELP). It is these attitudes and mannerisms Jean and I criticize, not the genre as a whole. Heaven's Cry seem to be an example that there can be music without these attitudes in the genre. And one of the most obnoxious of these attitudes is double bass-drumming, in my opinion. "Yeah, great leg muscles you have, Mr. double bass-drummer; let me give you a (CENSORED)".


Edited by BaldFriede - March 29 2008 at 17:49

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ I know that you don't like metal, it's as simple as that. You should go to some prog metal concerts and find out about this attitude first hand ... or buy some prog metal DVDs and watch them. From my perspective, knowing both metal and prog rock audiences, your saying that metal is just some anti-social punks with too much testosteron is just as prejudiced as saying that prog rock fans are all weed smoking lunatic hippies.

No, I am not saying that at all. First of all, this is tongue-in-cheek. But there is some truth in, and I don't think you can deny that, Mike. Of course all this "faster and louder" is some kind of fluffing up the feathers and strutting around. They don't do that for the music alone. What do you think the virtuoso playing of the 19-th century was all about? Exactly the same! It wasn't done for the music alone. Paganini had bad teeth, but the women did not care much when they melted to his wild arpeggios.

I think Jean hit the nail on the head when she posted that using double bass drum in many cases simply is the instrumental equivalent of a rapper saying "I am the meanest MF around". It is a widespread attitude among metal musicians, not only in prog metal and not only among drummers (other musicians have other ways of expressing this, of course, like shredding), and I think you know that pretty well, Mike. It is an attitude that existed even at the very beginning of rock already. And it is chiefly this attitude which I criticize.

Edited by BaldFriede - March 29 2008 at 17:15

http://www.symphonyx.com/audio.html

Listen to the track "Evolution". You'll find that only the chorus uses the pattern which you describe, where the whole bar is filled with evenly distributed and accentuated bass drum notes. I'm sure you won't find any metal song (let alone prog metal) which solely consists of this monotonous pattern ... there's always an element of variation. And why shouldn't there be situations where the bass drum and/or other instruments play something monotonous while some other instruments have the focus?


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - March 29 2008 at 16:50

^ it's not important at this speed. You could also argue that other instruments should not be played beyond a certain speed because the notes can't "ring out" properly ...

^ but the "kick" is very precise and doesn't blur. Of course the bass drum needs to be miked and set up differently for metal blastbeats than for more traditional sounds. Hence the need for gigantic drum kits like for example that of Mike Portnoy.