Transferring Vinyl

oliverstoned wrote: Btw, happy you enjoy this discussion

Sure!  I'm anything but pro in this subject, but it interests me. Different opinnions make the discusson, and my (too) big ego seldom get's harmed.  

I have Akai GX-95 tapedeck, but I use it nowadays only for recording the music of the garage psych band I have with my friends. We're having two gigs today, and I just packed it to the car. I don't have very much different uses for casettes, as there's not MC player in my car, nor do I have walkman.

I agree with your opinnion about mp3's, I don't use them exept of listening some music samples from the progarchives. But do you (or anybody else here) know, what kind of formats do the music industry use? How much more denser they are than wav? I can enjoy transcriptions I have done in a way desribed before, but I have also guite bad hearing, so I quess I don't get all the details of the sound. But I enjoy analog sound more than digital, that's for sure.

I'll have to leave before I get late from the sets!

Edited by Eetu Pellonpää

When I do LP conversion with the basic hertz configurations of Cool Edit Pro, the sound is OK, at least in my standards. When you think of the CD versions of the LP's from pre-digital era, what's the difference between those done home or in a factory? If there are some problems with result, I'm sure it's a question of machines or programs and the skill to use them.

But hey, this conversation is nice! These things have bothered me for a while, but I haven't managed to change opinnions about it before.

I have done some CD-r's as for back-up or to the car by simply recording the LP's as wav-file, and then editing it with Cool Edit Pro. Some major cracks and pops can also be faded if you have time, at least from some parts of the LP.

I also did some experiments by altering the hertz values, but these adventures ruined the whole sound! Didn't notice it first from the lousy computer headphones, but listening them from a decent amplifirer revealed that the sound resonated in unbearable way.

goose wrote: oliverstoned wrote: Hi goose, it seems that there's some "supersonic noise" on CD from 20 to 40 khz From audioholics.com: "As you can see, there is no such thing as "absolute silence", even on a digital rip off the CD. Note, though, that there is a cliff drop at around 22kHz. Note also the rising noise below 1kHz and the "hump" around 20kHz. This is same bit, but as played back by the SCD-XA777ES via the analog outputs: The Sony played back the "silence" reasonably well. including the rise at the bottom end and the hump around 20kHz. However, note that additional ultrasonic noise between 20-40kHz has now crept in at around -108dB. " OK, I don't know enough to disagree. Maybe someone should invent a filter/processer to connect between the CD player and the amp to remove anything over 22k...

Yes, i've already think of something like that.

Maybe it would be better, but the gap will be never filled between analog and numeric (and 24 bits technology will not change this, unfortunately)

What I still fail to properly understand is that if the 0s and 1s remain unaltered, how the audio data can possibly change.

If noise has "crept in", it MUST have been introduced as binary data via an alien mechanism: Computers don't store information any other way - they don't "understand" sound.

Granted that different readers interpret the data in different ways, due to the algorithms the implanted firmware uses to translate it - but I would not think it possible that data stored within a file could be changed unless the file has been opened and modified.

Sound, as far as a computer is concerned, IS merely a succession of 1s and 0s. It cannot be any other way - that is how computers work. It is how the higher level software and hardware interprets or modifies those bits that alters the sound.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/analog-digital3.htm

Unless someone knows different - linkage, anyone?

oliverstoned wrote: Cause their are very bad inpair harmonics between 20knz to 40khz with numeric sound. This is one of the causes of numeric harshness of sound. When you record a CD on a good tapedeck, which bandwith goes to 16khz on a Pionner CTF1000 for example and to 21/22 khz on a Naka1000, there's a filtration of that bandwith up to 22khz and its bad impair harmonics are suppressed. That's one of the reason why a CD recorded on tape is better than the same Cd... And the bandwith from 20khz to 40 khz is unuseful to listen to music for humans.

From what I learnt, it's not possible to get frequencies much above 20 kHz on a CD because the whole concept of digital sampling means that the highest frequency preserved in an ADC conversion will be just under half of the sample rate of 44.1 kHz.


edit: I'm having a go with some .wav software to see what happens.


Edited by goose

SORRY IT DOESN'T WORKS

Here's the gold version:

http://www.segundamano.es/fichaI.cfm?id=1239428&categoria_id =12&subcategoria_id=22&orden=precio

http://my.reset.jp/~inu/ProductsDataBase/Products/Nakamichi/ Cassette-Decks-ZX/Nakamichi-Cassette-Decks-ZX.htm

here's a good one!

"I sincerely don't believe that a Nakamichi deck is better than CD through a good system - the limitations of tape just don't permit it."

A nakamichi deck like that, with a good k7, recorded from a real good source, is much musical than any CD;
Cause their are very bad inpair harmonics between 20knz to 40khz with numeric sound.
This is one of the causes of numeric harshness of sound.
When you record a CD on a good tapedeck, which bandwith goes to 16khz on a Pionner CTF1000 for example and to 21/22 khz on a Naka1000, there's a filtration of that bandwith up to 22khz and its bad impair harmonics are suppressed.
That's one of the reason why a CD recorded on tape is better than the same Cd...

And the bandwith from 20khz to 40 khz is unuseful to listen to music for humans.

And believe me, a naka1000 playing a good tape, beat 15000€ good cd players easily.
Like a Linn LP12 turntable ruins many expensive Cd players.
That's the same.
But you have to hear it to believe.

That's what i do with my best CD, (exactly the contrary as you):i convert numeric into analog...

"Also I don't understand how the transferral of numbers and pure information from one cd to another can impair sound quality - it doesn't make sense to me. maybe i'm wrong but....."

Yes it's hard to believe at first, but if you were hearing a burnt computer CD and the original one beside on my hifi system, you would hear the difference in 10 seconds.
That's why i use audiophile burner and not burn on my computer.
The technical explanation is that sound (even numeric)is much more complex than a succession of 0 and 1.
Thare are very complex harmonics problem and this not as simple as it seems;

I would conclude by saying that today some very big studio musicians are looking for old 1960 studio tapedeck like some Studer, and they use it to improve their sound!
That proves that there's a reason for that...

I like to use a program called LP recorder. very cheap..under 20 bucks i belive and it works great..