Genesis: Better without Gabriel?

"Better" - in what way?

If you prefer the music after Gabriel left, then to you, yes, they were better.

From a technical musical perspective, Syzygy is right on the money - the quality of the musc changed dramatically after Steve Hackett left - necessarily.

However, Banks has always been a bit of an understated powerhouse of great musical ideas, and to me at least, Duke is the last of the truly progressive albums, each of which have qualities that appeal in very different ways; highlighting Genesis' versatility as a band.

That said, "A Trick of The Tail" is where the musical ideas become noticeably less experimental and more "safe". Ironically, this is summed up in the lyrics to "Duchess" on "Duke".

What's better is up to you - but I prefer music to be more experimental and less "safe".

When Hackett left it did mark the end of an era, thats for sure. Hackett thought the band were moving onto very safe and unadventurous ground, and was sick of having his songs rejected by the band.

For me 'And then there were three' and 'Duke' were both very good albums, though. It was after Duke they turned sh!t over night. Abacab was drivel IMO. Sounded like they had knocked it up in a day  Everything they done subsequesntly barely warrents comment.

I agree with ivan too..

Thats a good appraisal of both singers. Gabriels voice basically had more character and was more expressive. Phil Collins was technically a better singer, but was really a just a more polished version, especially on TOTT and WAW. Its funny that when their manager first heard Phil singing lead vocals in the rehearsals for TOTT he said 'Phil sounds more like Peter Gabriel than Peter Gabriel!'

And of course at the reunion concert at Milton Keynes in 1882 (?) PG was reported to have said to PC 'You sing the old songs better than I do, but you'll never sing them like I do'

ivan_2068 wrote: think Phil gets an unfair rap myself. His drumming is what made the band in the first place Wow, this one is great, Phil Collins was only a drummer, a good one but nothing else, Peter’ Gabriel’s voice and lyrics, Steve Hackett’s unique guitar and Tony Banks compositions is what made Genesis one of the best prog bands (Sorry for Mike but IMO the bassist could have been almost any one). Trespass IMHO is a much better album than ant post Gabriel album (Yes, for me it’s better than ATOTT, W&W and even than Selling England), and Phil Collins wasn’t there. I heard the drum parts in Trespass and must say that Genesis would not have changed very much without Collins except for his backing vocals. Seems that someone is trying to flame or do a bit of trolling. YOu don't wear the same clothing everyday" If Phil Collins compares his music with a simple set of clothes, this gives us an idea how important is the music for him, maybe as vital as a suit or a T-Shirt, whatever provides him more money. Iván

Yes, someone who shares my opinion! I love Trespass, and prefer it to the post Hackett. As for Phil Collins' quote- Genesis was always inovative, and changed dramatically with each record. He just changed it in the wrong way.

greenback

ivan_2068 wrote: I can't wait for Ivan's reaction... You asked for it Mirco, but it's calmed, because this is not a matter of taste, it's artistic music vs POP SOFT BLAND BALLADS, that have no place in a progressoive Rock forum. I understand (even when I absolutely disagree) if someone in a progressive rock forum says he likes more ATOTT or W&W because Phil sings better the progressive stuff, or even that¨Phil Collins sings better the Gabriel stuff because this opinion would be only a matter of taste. But anyone who comes to a progressive rock forum and says Invisible Touch, Illegal Alien or Who Dunnit (Because that's what Wes_Powell is saying) is better than Dancing with The Moonlit Knight, Supper's Ready or The Musical Box, is entitled to his taste, but he would feel more comfortable in a POP forum, like The Phil Collins Paradise or maybe even joining the in the Duran Duran or Michael Jackson's fan club where this opinions are very common. Iván PS: Hey Wes_Powell aren't you related to a guy who uses the nick kOOl Prog Guruz?

I need to bookmark this.Thanks for giving me my greatest laugh today Ivan.(And I thought it was only Brits who could do really good patroninsing and condascending put downs).

Syzygy wrote: Wes_Powell wrote: I was looking back over my collection the other night and played a few tunes off Selling England by the Pound and Invisible Touch and I had to admit that I liked the stuff with Phil singing more.Also The 80's production really strikes a chord with me and takes me back to my 80's heyday playing in Cock Rock bands.     Any other  Phil>Gabriel believers here? Admit it - you're Patrick Bateman aren't you?

 killer thread

¿Por que mi amigo? Solo dije lo que pensaba acerca de la comparación entre Invisible Toiuch y SEBTP, sin siquiera alterarme.

Why my friend? I only said what I thought aboutthe comparison between I.T. and SEBP, without even gettinga altered.

Peace

Iván