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 maani wrote:

Ivan: 

I went back and looked at the definition of "Symphonic Prog."  I guess the problem is that I disagree with it.  In fact, according to your definition, Jethro Tull should be classified as Symphonic Prog since they probably used more actual, true classical influences than any other prog band, including Yes or Genesis.  Indeed, based on the entire list of criteria of "Symphonic Prog" - and particularly your special note about influences - Jethro Tull is definitely Symphonic Prog; to call them "Prog Folk" is, at best, to "overvalue" their folk influences (which are certainly there), and, at worst, to demean them by rejecting their broad, consistent and obvious classical influences.

Peace. 

Well Maani, it's easy to disagree with a definition that has improved the one existing, it's not perfect but is the more accurate that you can get and we did it becaue it needed to be changed.

No genre is 100% accurate, Genesis has also a touch of Folk, Kansas has Hard Rock and Country Music, Aphrodite's Child is in Folk but could easily be in Symphonic also, this is a case by case decision. 

If we are wrong in something is because we try to do something, only those who dare to make changes can faill sometimes, something not too hard in art, a discipline that has no 100% exact rules. Yes, Jethro Tull could be in Symphonic or even better in Art Rock, but the choice is Folk and that you would have to talk with Sean.

The old two lines definition of Symphonic that said nothing was since the beginning to this year and after consulting with the Collaborators I made the change that nobody did before, I took the risk and accept the consequences, now it can be improved but there are many things to change like the Art Rock definition, something that again I'm already trying to start with a pre definitions to receive feedback.

We placed this definition (When you were not in the forum) in the Collaborators zone for a while and there were no objections, by the contrary most members (Including one of the owners who sent me a PM) agreed it was a great improvement from the previous.

Now to the issue:

There are bands like Jethro Tull that have two or more influences and we have to choose one Renaissance IMO is as close to folk as Jethro Tull but Jethro  is considered an Icon of Folk.

There's something important also, Jethro Tull has a clear Pastoral atmosphere in each and every album (Except the first two ones that are closer to Blues which BTW is an ethnic expression of USA derivative of Jazz).

Songs from the Woods and Heavy Horses are 100% Folk and even those albums that are inspired in Classical Music are influenced by Medieval Classical, which is exactly the point of musical history that divides Classical (In a broad sense) from Trouvadoresque Folkloric.

So I believe that Jethro Tull is OK where it is, some people are talking of changing them to Art Rock, but I beliecve they have such a unique Pastoral and Bucolic sound that the Folk influence must be protected over the rest.

Now, don't blame Symphonic for The Moody Blues, this Proto Prog  decision was taken by M@X and Prog Lucky and I agree with them, most  site in the Progressive Net includes Moody Blues as Proto Prog, Psyche or even POP mainstream:

[quote ]I've been a Moodies fan for years, but I rarely discuss them in a progressive forum like this one. That's because while a lot of fans of symphonic prog rock love the Moodies, very few would say that their music is progressive in the sense of Yes or Genesis. And because of the nature of the band's more recent output, most people consider them more of a radio-ready adult-contemporary group, and I'm likely to get bounced all the way to rec.music.misc. The band's roots are firmly R&B. The initial line-up (Denny Laine (gtr/vox), Clint Warwick (bass), Graeme Edge (perc), Mike Pinder (keys/vox), and Ray Thomas (sax/flutes/vox)) recorded a bunch of R&B stuff, including one hit called "Go Now." When Laine and Warwick left and Justin Hayward (guitar/vocals) and John Lodge (bass/vocals) joined up, things changed considerably. They recorded their first (and probably most progressive) album (Days...) with the London Festival Orchestra. Edge's poetry, Hayward's vocals, Thomas' flute, and the full orchestra backing gave the album a lush, warm feel. This is also one of the band's most accessible albums, appealing to fans of prog, classical, psychedelia, soft rock, and classic rock. But the overriding "progressiveness" of recording with an orchestra (well, it was progressive then!) tagged the Moodies as a prog rock band, even though all of their subsequent albums were only marginally progressive, at best.

http://www.gepr.net/mofram.html

[/quote]

It's almost a concensus they are barely Prog, and nobody outside or insude PA believes they are Symphonic.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 17 2006 at 16:15