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OpethGuitarist 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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 Posted: July 30 2006 at 15:14 |
 stonebeard wrote:
Melomaniac wrote:
Really, I used to love DT... Images and Words and Awake are
still among my favorite prog metal albums, because they wrote SONGS
back then, now all they do is show off... And Labrie ruins everything
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I don't know how you can say that when Octavarium:
a) ha hardly any showing off, or at least no more than Images and Words or Awake
b) is comprised entirely (except maybe the title track, but even
considering that, no prog fan should consider the majority of that
track showing off, lest they consider all of prog showing off) of
coherent songs. |
Yea, comprised of some coherent songs they STOLE.
Plagiarism is not my idea of something good.
However, they do not show off on that record, I will give you that.
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 15:13 |
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Pain of Salvation? lol
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 15:00 |
Melomaniac wrote:
Really, I used to love DT... Images and Words and Awake are still among my favorite prog metal albums, because they wrote SONGS back then, now all they do is show off... And Labrie ruins everything ! |
I don't know how you can say that when Octavarium:
a) ha hardly any showing off, or at least no more than Images and Words or Awake
b) is comprised entirely (except maybe the title track, but even considering that, no prog fan should consider the majority of that track showing off, lest they consider all of prog showing off) of coherent songs.
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Melomaniac
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4088
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 14:53 |
Really, I used to love DT... Images and Words and Awake are still among my favorite prog metal albums, because they wrote SONGS back then, now all they do is show off... And Labrie ruins everything !
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 14:52 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Welcome to the club of DT bashers! We always accept new members with great enthusiasm..
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hahahah... that's right.. come join the light... step away from the dark side... much pain and w**kerery do I sense there
Edited by micky - July 30 2006 at 14:53
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 14:50 |
Welcome to the club of DT bashers! We always accept new members with great enthusiasm..
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Melomaniac
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4088
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 14:45 |
SYmphony X write songs and add technical moments
DT write songs as pretext to show off
Symphony X have the best prog metal vocalist
DT has Labrie, the most annoying vocalist ever
Symphony X are consistent in putting out quality albums and remain true to their style
DT have Octavarium, Scenes from a Memory, two albums I find WAY too overrated...
Need I say more ?
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: June 15 2006 at 16:59 |
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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imoeng
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 03 2006
Location: Indonesia
Status: Offline
Points: 2450
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Posted: June 15 2006 at 16:57 |
have i said this before??
Dream Theater
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2530
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Posted: June 15 2006 at 16:53 |
Symphony X for me 
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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hamham
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 05 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 184
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Posted: June 15 2006 at 16:51 |
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haha, who said DT was a power prog band?
that is not very true :\
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Time-Machinist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2006
Location: Museum
Status: Offline
Points: 182
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Posted: June 15 2006 at 16:50 |
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You should stop that x1000 thing. Dream Theater is not x1000 times prog than Symphony X; and Petrucci is not x1000 times more versatile than Romeo. Should i say Allen is x1000 times more versatile or better than Labrie? No, that's not my style. "I" try to be more objective...
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: June 15 2006 at 15:30 |
Vendetta2321 wrote:
AtLossForWords wrote:
king volta wrote:
this has been done at least 8 times, and each time i've voted symphony x--and that's not about to change now. i find dream theater rather dull/uninspiring (except for a few tracks on Train of Thought--that's their only album i actually enjoy [and i'll probably be told off by DTFan#1 for that...and all the other numbers]).
Symphony X i find much more emotionally rousing, with their backing choir arrangements and more intense metal compositions. V: TNMS is a wonderful achievement... |
...And here it is!!!
Let me start out by saying that Symphony X has never done an album with the creative ambition of Dream Theater's Scenes From a Memory, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, and Awake. Symphony X has never been able to pull off the structure and depth to their shorter songs or epics.
Dream Theater consistently does more interesting things with time signatures, key signatures, timbre, and the structure of their epics.
Symphony X has never written a piece with the structrual depth of Octavarium. Both of Symphony X's epics the Divine Wings of Tragedy and the Odyssey fail to change timbre. The Odyssey places a novice orchestral introduction, but then shifts instantly shifts to a metal timbre never to chance. Octavarium shifts through a psychodelic keyboard intro, soft melancholic prog, almost neo-prog, technical instrumental, metal, and professionally orchestrated timbres.
Dream Theater is also much more creative than Symphony X with chordal harmony. Neither Dream Theater or Symphony X have amazing harmony between instruments, but unlike Symphony X, Dream Theater experiments with different types of chord structures. This comes from the jazzy touches Dream Theater has. Symphony X's strict metal roots limit them from exploring modes and other forms of diatonic harmony. Major and minor triads along with root fifth chords are Symphony X's only harmonic tool.
The rythymnic element of Symphony X doesn't even stand a chance against Dream Theater. Symphony X primarily sticks to basic 4/4 rythymns. Dream Theater is not afraid to shift between 4/4, 3/4, 5/4, 11/4, 6/8, 7/8, 14/16, and 15/16 signatures. The bass playing and drumming in Symphony X also lack creativity. John Myung supports melodies in ways Mike LePond just doesn't have the abiity. Jason Rullo just doesn't have the flair for the dramatic or the solo capabilities Portnoy has. |
But you also have to remember that most of DT went to Berkley, a school dedicated to music theory making most of the stuff they do to me (being a musician) not that impressive because they learned it form the best of the best at music college. Michael Romeo as I remember him say is mostly self taught, which by the type of music he writes is very, very impressive. John Petrucci is also in my opinion one of the most overrated guitarists out there today (Don’t kill me for that). Also listen to DT's vocals are well repellent to their music... c'mon can you seriously say that James LaBrie's voice is good? I also don't find Dream Theater that entertaining. I will say that though I do find some DT songs entertaining their music overall just doesn’t do it for me. Symphony X on the other hand has a lot of songs i really can get into.
I think I would be able to get more into DT if they had a different singer and JP mixed his playing up some more, I mean c'mon do you really need every solo to be 260 BPM? and does everything have to be some sort of the Diminished run?
But that’s just my 2 cents... |
Some people don't like LaBrie, so I can understand that part. I love his voice, it's well enunciate with great range and is operatically trained. LaBrie's vocal harmonies are some of the very best in the genre. Other than Neal Morse, there's no vocalist that I would rather sing along while I listen to than James LaBrie.
What you are saying about Petrucci is nothing but flame. I happen to think he's very underrated. He has the technical ability of guys like Vai, Satriani, and Malmsteen, but he's rarely mentioned in the same sentance. When people talk about G3 they talk about obviously Vai and others, but rarely speak of Petrucci's talents which are more than a match for guys like Malmsteen who are one dimensional players.
Not every solo by Petrucci is shredding at 260 bpm is "The Spirit Carries On" at a fast tempo, no, it's a 12/8 bluesy solo featuring precise bends and etc. Petrucci is x1000 times more verstile than Romeo. Romeo is a metal guitarist. He doesn't have the jazz and blues elements in his playing that Petrucci does.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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W.Chuck
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 606
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Posted: June 15 2006 at 07:15 |
Vendetta2321 wrote:
But you also have to remember that most of DT went to Berkley, a school dedicated to music theory making most of the stuff they do to me (being a musician) not that impressive because they learned it form the best of the best at music college. Michael Romeo as I remember him say is mostly self taught, which by the type of music he writes is very, very impressive. John Petrucci is also in my opinion one of the most overrated guitarists out there today (Don’t kill me for that). Also listen to DT's vocals are well repellent to their music... c'mon can you seriously say that James LaBrie's voice is good? I also don't find Dream Theater that entertaining. I will say that though I do find some DT songs entertaining their music overall just doesn’t do it for me. Symphony X on the other hand has a lot of songs i really can get into.
I think I would be able to get more into DT if they had a different singer and JP mixed his playing up some more, I mean c'mon do you really need every solo to be 260 BPM? and does everything have to be some sort of the Diminished run?
But that’s just my 2 cents... |
fully agreed!
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Australian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3278
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Posted: June 15 2006 at 01:41 |
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I like Symphony X's ideas more but Dream Theater is more interesting and enjoyable to listen to.
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Vendetta2321
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2
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Posted: June 15 2006 at 00:04 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
king volta wrote:
this has been done at least 8 times, and each time i've voted symphony x--and that's not about to change now. i find dream theater rather dull/uninspiring (except for a few tracks on Train of Thought--that's their only album i actually enjoy [and i'll probably be told off by DTFan#1 for that...and all the other numbers]).
Symphony X i find much more emotionally rousing, with their backing choir arrangements and more intense metal compositions. V: TNMS is a wonderful achievement... |
...And here it is!!!
Let me start out by saying that Symphony X has never done an album with the creative ambition of Dream Theater's Scenes From a Memory, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, and Awake. Symphony X has never been able to pull off the structure and depth to their shorter songs or epics.
Dream Theater consistently does more interesting things with time signatures, key signatures, timbre, and the structure of their epics.
Symphony X has never written a piece with the structrual depth of Octavarium. Both of Symphony X's epics the Divine Wings of Tragedy and the Odyssey fail to change timbre. The Odyssey places a novice orchestral introduction, but then shifts instantly shifts to a metal timbre never to chance. Octavarium shifts through a psychodelic keyboard intro, soft melancholic prog, almost neo-prog, technical instrumental, metal, and professionally orchestrated timbres.
Dream Theater is also much more creative than Symphony X with chordal harmony. Neither Dream Theater or Symphony X have amazing harmony between instruments, but unlike Symphony X, Dream Theater experiments with different types of chord structures. This comes from the jazzy touches Dream Theater has. Symphony X's strict metal roots limit them from exploring modes and other forms of diatonic harmony. Major and minor triads along with root fifth chords are Symphony X's only harmonic tool.
The rythymnic element of Symphony X doesn't even stand a chance against Dream Theater. Symphony X primarily sticks to basic 4/4 rythymns. Dream Theater is not afraid to shift between 4/4, 3/4, 5/4, 11/4, 6/8, 7/8, 14/16, and 15/16 signatures. The bass playing and drumming in Symphony X also lack creativity. John Myung supports melodies in ways Mike LePond just doesn't have the abiity. Jason Rullo just doesn't have the flair for the dramatic or the solo capabilities Portnoy has. |
But you also have to remember that most of DT went to Berkley, a school dedicated to music theory making most of the stuff they do to me (being a musician) not that impressive because they learned it form the best of the best at music college. Michael Romeo as I remember him say is mostly self taught, which by the type of music he writes is very, very impressive. John Petrucci is also in my opinion one of the most overrated guitarists out there today (Don’t kill me for that). Also listen to DT's vocals are well repellent to their music... c'mon can you seriously say that James LaBrie's voice is good? I also don't find Dream Theater that entertaining. I will say that though I do find some DT songs entertaining their music overall just doesn’t do it for me. Symphony X on the other hand has a lot of songs i really can get into.
I think I would be able to get more into DT if they had a different singer and JP mixed his playing up some more, I mean c'mon do you really need every solo to be 260 BPM? and does everything have to be some sort of the Diminished run?
But that’s just my 2 cents...
Edited by Vendetta2321 - June 15 2006 at 00:15
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Jeff Schu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 394
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Posted: June 14 2006 at 22:08 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
There's no power metal influence in DT. They don't sing about nights, they don't do boring gallop rythymns. Dream Theater is about x1000 more prog than Symphony X. |
I definately agree on the more Prog part.
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: June 14 2006 at 15:48 |
There's no power metal influence in DT. They don't sing about nights, they don't do boring gallop rythymns. Dream Theater is about x1000 more prog than Symphony X.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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GoldenSpiral
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3839
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Posted: June 14 2006 at 15:09 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
GoldenSpiral wrote:
Symphony X has the edge over DT because they keep progressive power metal HEAVY without ever sounding 'neo-prog', as DT seems to be so fond of doing. |
Why don't we give Dream Theater credit for keeping lame power metal influence out of progressive metal?  |
because DT is progressive power metal, just minus the heavy.
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Dream Theater
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 14 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 2188
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Posted: June 14 2006 at 15:05 |
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I think Dream Theater is a big Symphony X influence and that's why I voted for DT.
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Dream Theater or Symphony X
