why women dont like prog?

Jim Garten wrote: She also loves the fact that when we go to a prog gig, there's never a queue for the ladies loos, as 99% of the audience is made up of greying men of a 'certain' age.

Sorry to contradict you... but I remember when, two years ago, I went to see Rush in Milan and I had to queue for about a quarter of an hour to get into the ladies! The gents, on the other hand, was almost empty... So much for stereotypes!

BaldFriede wrote: robertplantowns wrote: One reason women do not like prog because is because they can't relate to the lyrics.  For women lyrics are of an ultimate importance and they like sappy lyrics more than a good riff or chord progression.  Women like to be able to sing along to music, and for women, the meaning of the song is more important than the music itself.  Have you ever heard a woman say, "Hey check out that sweet interplay between those instruments." or, "wow the chord structures are so brilliant", or "hey check out that sick virtuosic solo" no simply because most women do not really care about those sorts of things. MOST.  Not to say that women can't like prog or classical or jazz music, but they tend to prefer it for the "feeling" the music exudes rather than the sake of just listening to some interesting chords, lines, complex arrangements etc.  Which is not to say that listening to music for its "feeling" is the wrong way of listening to music, but generally, women tend to hear music on a feeling standpoint.  Ohh these lyrics make me feel this way, this song is soo sad, this is my sad collection of songs.  (have you ever met a guy who has a "sad" collection of songs, or a "happy" collection)  Oh this song is so romantic and makes me feel something something.  Oh this classical song, or progressive rock song "feels" nice, but they won't like music for it's sheer virtuosity, complexity, originality, weird factor, or progressive qualities, which is what progressive music is all about.  For instance, a woman could NEVER get into some really technical, atonal, math-metal that is so complex and intricate but doesn't give off any feeling whatsoever.  THAT's why women tend to dislike progressive rock. Well, I think anyone who listens to music just to look for complex arrangements or interesting chords has his head stuck up his bum, to be honest. Why don't you just read the sheet music instead? You might as well look at paintings to search for curves of interesting functions! That's what's wrong with some of the modern composers, by the way. The concept is more important to them than the sound. I really don't care that Krachmanninoff's "Concerto for Badly Tuned Orchestra and Two Sewing-Machines" makes use of the fastest and most complex rhythms ever (the syncopated rhythms of the sewing needles working at a slightly different tempo) or that Noisoffski's "Symphony for 200 Refrigerators" mixes the sounds of these refrigerators in a really intricate way if the result of it does not move me a bit. If you are not able to fill your complexity with a soul, you are not a musician, you are a technician. If it is all about complexity, write a complicated computer program that will do things no-one has done before and no-human being can play and then play it to another computer; maybe the other computer will enjoy it.

   

Jim Garten wrote: 99% of the audience is made up of greying men of a 'certain' age.

Yes the Dark Age...

..or should that be Dork Ages..... 

robertplantowns wrote: One reason women do not like prog because is because they can't relate to the lyrics.  For women lyrics are of an ultimate importance and they like sappy lyrics more than a good riff or chord progression.  Women like to be able to sing along to music, and for women, the meaning of the song is more important than the music itself.

I guess this is why so many women are into hip hop with lyrics where they are more often than not called whores and sluts, degraded in any possible way and what not. Perhaps you should think before saying something, so that people like me don't come along and make you look, well, not that bright.

Blacksword wrote: BaldFriede wrote: robertplantowns wrote: One reason women do not like prog because is because they can't relate to the lyrics.  For women lyrics are of an ultimate importance and they like sappy lyrics more than a good riff or chord progression.  Women like to be able to sing along to music, and for women, the meaning of the song is more important than the music itself.  Have you ever heard a woman say, "Hey check out that sweet interplay between those instruments." or, "wow the chord structures are so brilliant", or "hey check out that sick virtuosic solo" no simply because most women do not really care about those sorts of things. MOST.  Not to say that women can't like prog or classical or jazz music, but they tend to prefer it for the "feeling" the music exudes rather than the sake of just listening to some interesting chords, lines, complex arrangements etc.  Which is not to say that listening to music for its "feeling" is the wrong way of listening to music, but generally, women tend to hear music on a feeling standpoint.  Ohh these lyrics make me feel this way, this song is soo sad, this is my sad collection of songs.  (have you ever met a guy who has a "sad" collection of songs, or a "happy" collection)  Oh this song is so romantic and makes me feel something something.  Oh this classical song, or progressive rock song "feels" nice, but they won't like music for it's sheer virtuosity, complexity, originality, weird factor, or progressive qualities, which is what progressive music is all about.  For instance, a woman could NEVER get into some really technical, atonal, math-metal that is so complex and intricate but doesn't give off any feeling whatsoever.  THAT's why women tend to dislike progressive rock. Well, I think anyone who listens to music just to look for complex arrangements or interesting chords has his head stuck up his bum, to be honest. Why don't you just read the sheet music instead? You might as well look at paintings to search for curves of interesting functions! That's what's wrong with some of the modern composers, by the way. The concept is more important to them than the sound. I really don't care that Krachmanninoff's "Concerto for Badly Tuned Orchestra and Two Sewing-Machines" makes use of the fastest and most complex rhythms ever (the syncopated rhythms of the sewing needles working at a slightly different tempo) or that Noisoffski's "Symphony for 200 Refrigerators" mixes the sounds of these refrigerators in a really intricate way if the result of it does not move me a bit. If you are not able to fill your complexity with a soul, you are not a musician, you are a technician.

Too bloody right, Friede.

boo boo wrote: I think its a offensive stereotype to say there are no female prog fans, i have seen footage of Yes live, and there were a lot of female fans there, and obviously they werent there because of the bands sex appeal. And Yes, Genesis and Pink Floyd have a lot of qualitys that would appeal to most women, in both their sound and their theme. But a friend of mine dosent like King Crimson, she thinks they are too noisy and weird, cant say shes wrong, because those are 2 of the main qualitys that made the band so popular to begin with.

Well, I dont think anyones suggesting that there are none, but it is obviously  a 'male dominated' thing. Genesis used to count the women in their audiences, on one hand!

One girl I used to know used to say 'What is that awful sound?!' whenever I used to play prog. I wasn't sure which 'awful' sound she was reffering to. It turned out it was our beloved Mellotron!

 

     My policy was always like, if you meet a woman who likes Frank Zappa,
marry her, because they're that rare, and the ones I have met were always
very cool. My girlfriend now always grabs one of my CDs to listen to while
working around the house, and when I recently gave her a Snakefinger to
listen to, said, "Oh, I was hoping for something more complex"...so she's
just getting used to it gradually, with no prompting from me.

My mother likes Barclay James Harvest and The Moody Blues, oh and Procol Harum, but she's not into any of the prog I like.

I have a lot of female friends, most aren't into prog, but one does like Liquid Tension Experiment, a few like Porcupine Tree and a lot more of them like Opeth.  None, as far as I know, are into their classic prog but one girl likes Steve Hackett.  Oh and two of them like Jethro Tull too, but they're American strangely enough...

But, out of my male friends, very few are into prog either, they're more metal orientated on the whole.  I know a guy who likes Can, Faust, Television and Lou Reed and he is getting into VdGG now too, but he's in his 40s I think.  Another guy likes IQ and The Flower Kings.

But I do agree, there does seem to be a lack of women liking prog, I have no answer why really, I guess it all depends on their upbringing, their friends and relations and all that.

Bob Greece wrote: Blacksword wrote: The reason 'most' women seem to not like prog, is the same reason that 'most' women dont like fishing or football; it's the nerdy, anorak, chart, league tables, genre, sub-genre geek collector element of it all. Prog is not about fun, it's about being serious, and remember, girls just wanna have fun, right! I think for most women, hearing someone go on about prog is like listening to someone who collects railway memorobilia. Un-interesting and un-sexy. Isn't it possible to be nerdy about any kind of music not just prog? Couldn't you have a nerdy collection of pop records for instance? I suppose it's hard to collect pop records because the bands normally only last for one album.

Oh yes indeed, but I think it's a different kind of nerdiness..

The most 'nerdy' folk I've ever met are into techno or Hip Hop. They collect records like we do, they worship vinyl MORE than we do, they talk endlessly about makes of mixers, the best slipmats for your 'decks' and collaborations between obscure DJ's who no one outside their circle has ever heard of. In principle, does any of this sound familiar, folks??

But it's still a different nerdishness, as it's tied in with fashion, and dancing and is therefore more accessable to females. It's about having a good time (however sh!t it may appear to us)

I had heard it said that males were more likely to be autistic than females. I think thats true, and I think there is a degree of autism in ALL men, but a male tendancy towards prog is not really an indicator of that IMO. Most of us comment on how emotional we find prog rock, and if you were autisitic - at certain ends of the spectrum - you wouldn't respond emotionally to music, certainly not in the way that we describe.

Oh, well - there you go again!  I must say I've had quite enough of these stupid generalisations on women. We're in the 21st century, remember?

By the way, I'm a woman, and I've ALWAYS listened to prog, classic rock, hard rock and even heavy metal. On the other hand, I've ALWAYS hated all kinds of sappy, romantic, chart-friendly music. One of the reasons why I don't like most of the music produced in my own country (Italy) is that it tends to be too melodic. This doesn't mean I hate all songs based on love, feelings, emotions and what not: I like those whose music I like more than their words.

I guess I've never been your typical female, as I like fantastic literature much more than romance, I don't go and see chick flicks, I've never read "Bridget Jones".... As to lyrics, I appreciate it when a song says something deeper than "I miss you" and such. That's why I love lyrics by (for instance) Peter Gabriel, Neil Peart, Roger Waters.

So, please, stop saying offensive things about women not being able to understand or appreciate complex music or intelligent lyrics. It may be true that many women like dance music or chart fodder, but it is also true of most men. Otherwise, the charts would be full of prog and Whitney Houston or Ricky Martin would be begging in the streets.