Steve Howe v.s Steve Hackett poll

Soooooo basically, what you are saaying, is that Mr. Steve Howe NEVER plays the role of the atmospheric guitar???????????.......... OR HOW ABOUT THIS ONE......... are you telling me that there are times when Howe IS NOT playing in the background, where he is not playing solos????????? If your answer to these questions are yes, then you haven't really been listening to YES music. Howe takes the "secondary", "background" role more than people are willing to give him credit for.

Please, don't change my statements, I said that Hackett's playing is much more atmospheric, I never said that Howe never does atmospheric playing.

Of course any person with two ears (Also with one) will notice that Genesis music is more based in atmospheres thab Yes music, but that doesn't mean tha Howre never did.

Please, don't change my words to make your point, when I answer you, I do it point by point to avoid being accused of taking things out of context or changing your words.

OH BY THE WAY....THERE ARE ALOT OF SOLOS IN GENESIS MUSIC..........there is ALMOST one in every song I can think of.....either Hackett, Banks, or Gabriel on Flute.

Not as often as in Yes, that's the main argument of some members to day that Genesis is not a good band because they don't make too many solos.

Just read all the threads about this issue.

Once again I pose the question....WHAT IS WRONG WITH SOLOING???

Nothing, as I said,this are two different approachs to their playing, Genesis doesn't priviledge solos as much as Yes, this doesn't make them better or worst, just different.

and as far as this nonsense of YES members trying to TAKE THE LEAD...... a great band needs TO WORK TOGETHER, a great band needs to be a COHESIVE UNIT.......... YES IS a cohesive unit. You can OBVIOUSLY hear that in the music......(well obviously, some people can't hear that). YES IS A BAND THAT WORKS TOGETHER!!

It's obvious that Yes is a band that bases their playing in the virtuoso attributes of their members, and that everybody wants to be the star on stage, I seen Yes many times and my description of the behaviour of their members is accurate, just been checking some DVD's and I don't change my point of view.

In Yes, doesn't Wakeman uses capes and acts as a second frontman? Doesn't Squire jumps all over the stage? Doesn't Howe makes faces during all the concert and takes the lead very often? Please, don't be blind.

Look at any Genesis DVD (If you have one, because most are bootlegs), Hackett sits down in the left of the screen and doesn't take his kead from his guitar, Peter can be joking or using customs, but Steve never takes his eyes from the guitar, Mike Rutherford hides back in the left and you hardly see him. Tony doesn't take the head from his keyboard except in therare ocasions in which he plays the accustic guitar.

Genesis has been accused on this forum hundreed of times of being a band without virtuosos (something with ehat I disagree) and Yes fans boast about how many great solos their members play, just check older threads.

In Genesis Peter alone does the show and sometimes jokes with Phil who does the backing vocals, the rest of the members stick to their instruments. This is their style as Yes has it's own style, and it works for the two bands.

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Oh and one more thing Ivan.......... once again, you have to use your ears....... you lose ALOT of credibility when you say something so obviously FALSE as "Steve Howe is NOT a versatile guitarist". I mean say whatever you want, in regards to personal taste.... if you like Hackett's style of playing over Steve Howe's style, then that's fine you are entitled to it...........but to be so openly biased and say something foolish, like Howe is not versatile is quite sad. I think Howe's work speaks for itself.

I just mention a fact, Steve Howe has been playin mostly the same two tracks on stage for 30 something years, and don't come me with the argument that each version of Clap or Mood for a Day is different to the other please, you don't have very much to change in an accustic solo.

His solo career is mostly in the vein of what he does in Yes, so honestly I don't believe he's so versatile as many people believe.

Look at Howe's career, he has Prog, Rock, Classical Guitar and even darker albums, each and every one is solid, he played with a lot of great musicians with opposite styles and doene it well, so that's why I believe he's much more versatile than Howe, again this is my opinion and I won't change it, the evidenceis clear for anyone who is willing o see it.

YOU CAN EVEN SAY..........."I HATE HOWE'S PLAYING!!!".........that I accept.............but you saying he's not versatile is a sin and a shame!!!..Shame on you Ivan.

I would be lying if said that I hate Howe's playing because he's clearly avirtuoso, but I don't believe I'm lying when I say I don't believe he's a versatile guitar player.

...........ESPECIALLY since in the context of the two bands, YES and Genesis.........Hackett seems more restrained than Howe. The guitar in Genesis has a specific role.......DO NOT STEP ON TONY BANK'S TOES!!!!!!!!...........Steve Howe doesn't have those restrictions in YES and his playing is much freer, he does much more with the guitar, he uses the guitar is fun and interesting ways that Hackett doesnt, Howe is assigned to a larger assortment of roles than Hackett.

You're making my point, Genesis was a band in which the musicians played for the brightness of the band, there was less freedom for their members, because each one had a determined job and did it as a well oiled machine, if you want to listen Hackett playing with absolute freedom, listen his solo albums which you sauid you own.

Howe is a painter, and his many guitars and their sounds are his pallette.......and YES is a band which allows him to explore his creativity.

And you dare to talk me of subjectivity and being oriented towards Genesis (Something I don't deny)?????  Please, you're doing a poetic description of Howe's style, what is not wrong because you're a Yes fan, but don't say you're objective and I'm subjctive.

We both are fans, but at least I admit it and use examples with muy arguments.

Pot....kettle

Yes, I like Genesis more than Yes, that's a fact I can't deny.

I only said that I believe Hackett is a more versatile guitar player and that I like his style and technique much more than Hopwes.

Genesis and Yes have different approachs, that's also a fact, lets see what I said:

1. Genesis works with atmospheric guitar (That's a fact)
2. Genesis had only one frontman (That's a fact) and most Yes members tried to takethe lead (That's also a fact)
3. You said that Banks and Rutherford helped Hackett with guitars, I said it's true, but only on stage and determined songs.
4. Yes members play solos and Genesis members mostly not, that's also a fact.
5. I also said I love Yes.

I can't understand where is your problem. I'm not the only person who believes Hackett is better than Howe.

Iván

Proglover wrote: Ummmm with all due repsect to Jon Anderson, it is apparent that both Banks and Rutherford are more accomplished guitarists than Anderson. As I said before, Banks and Rutherford only play ACUSTIC guitar on LIVE SHOWS on a few songs (A section of Supper's Ready, Musical Box (Only Banks), More Fool Me and Entangled), due to a simple reason, Steve Hackett only has two hands and can't overdub on stage. That being said you can OBVIOUSLY tell in YES, who is playing what. Well, Genesis needed a guitar player who added ATMOSPHERES, somehow in the style of Anthony Phillips, but Hackett did a better job. But the main reason is that GENESIS was a band of musicians that worked for Genesis, not just a collection of frontmen who tried to prove each one was better than the rest, in Genesis the show was made by Peter Gabriel, the rest of the members sticked to their instruments and the music. In Yes, you had Anderson singing, Wakeman using shinning capes and mirrors, Squire jumping all over the stage in satin capes and Steve Howe making faces as is he was suffering from indigestion, everyone tried to be the star. But you made a pouint, Steve's guitar was so unique that still today some people believe the guitar soolo on Firth of Fifth is done with keyboards. Don't misunderstand me, I love Yes, but for me Genesis is one step further.  But because Genesis was a different band the guitar IS in the background.......and it's either Tony Bank's keyboards leading the charge or a blending of three guitars with the addition of Bancks and Rutherford added to Hackett's playing Again we're talking about something that only happened on stage and in a couple of tracks, on studio Steve overdubed his parts, and sounded incredibly better. .....ONCE AND A WHILE, Hackett does play solos...I like Hackett alot, I have said many times.... that the Foxtrot album is simply not one of my favorites, and I said that the BEST TRACK on that entire album was Horizons, which was an acoustic guitar piece played by Hackett, Genesis music is not based in solos, more in complex harmoonie, elaborate arrangements and invredible harmonies, there's no Yes song without a solo by Howe, Squire or Wakeman. two different conceptions of music, and worked for both. If you want to listen Hackett's solos, you can buy Voyage of the Acolyte, Guitar Noir, Midsummer Night Dream, Tokyo Tapes and at least 20 more excellent albums.  so I do love Hackett.... BUT HE IS NO STEVE HOWE, SORRY!!! I also love Howe's guitar, but IMO he's no Hackett.

Iván

Proglover wrote: ivan_2068 wrote: Proglover wrote: ivan_2068 wrote: Progger wrote: I have spoken to artists to have played with both and they all said the same thing, 'Howe is the far better player'. Howe's awards in the field are unrivalled. I like Hackett but he was only a 'bit' part player in Genesis with too much inactivity! A bit partof Genesis? The atmospheric sound that was trademark of Genesis was created and developed by Hackett, Genesis resisted the departure of their lyricist and most charismatic figure (Peter Gabriel) but the quality went down when Steve left. Which Howe awards? Howe made 90% of his career in Yes, Hackett has played with almost every Prog' musician and has probably the most solid solo career in Prog. Iván Ummm lets get something straight....THE Genesis sound WAS TONY BANKS.... NOT STEVE HACKETT!! NO way, The Genesis sound was the blending of Steve's gitar with Tony's keyboards. Listen Firth of Fifth, the guitar sounds almost as a second keyboard, something hard to achieve in the 70's when there was no MIDI guitar. And I insist, I see no versatility in Steve Howe, just listen Midsummer Night Dream by Hackett and tell me who is versatile and who's not. By the way, I never judge the quality of the musician for how hard to play are his parts, I judge the quality of the music on the beauty of his work. Iván Ahhhh yes, and you must not forget that BOTH TONY BANKS and MIKE RUTHERFORD doubled and tripled on guitars!!!!!!!!!!!

Please only during some acustic sections of a couple of songs and on Entangled plus More Fool Me.

BTW: Jon Anderson also played guitar on a couple of songs.

But we all know that neither Banks or Rutherford and much less Anderson were in the level of Howe or Hackett.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: Proglover wrote: ivan_2068 wrote: Progger wrote: I have spoken to artists to have played with both and they all said the same thing, 'Howe is the far better player'. Howe's awards in the field are unrivalled. I like Hackett but he was only a 'bit' part player in Genesis with too much inactivity! A bit partof Genesis? The atmospheric sound that was trademark of Genesis was created and developed by Hackett, Genesis resisted the departure of their lyricist and most charismatic figure (Peter Gabriel) but the quality went down when Steve left. Which Howe awards? Howe made 90% of his career in Yes, Hackett has played with almost every Prog' musician and has probably the most solid solo career in Prog. Iván Ummm lets get something straight....THE Genesis sound WAS TONY BANKS.... NOT STEVE HACKETT!! NO way, The Genesis sound was the blending of Steve's gitar with Tony's keyboards. Listen Firth of Fifth, the guitar sounds almost as a second keyboard, something hard to achieve in the 70's when there was no MIDI guitar. And I insist, I see no versatility in Steve Howe, just listen Midsummer Night Dream by Hackett and tell me who is versatile and who's not. By the way, I never judge the quality of the musician for how hard to play are his parts, I judge the quality of the music on the beauty of his work. Iván

Ahhhh yes, and you must not forget that BOTH TONY BANKS and MIKE RUTHERFORD doubled and tripled on guitars!!!!!!!!!!!