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Dan Bobrowski
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 02 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 5243
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Posted: August 24 2004 at 10:31 |
Dick Heath wrote:
amongst the best and earliest examples of 4th period jazz rock - along with Holdsworth's. BTW (aimed at Danbo for consideration) I would consider Holdsworth's last two studio albums (None Too Soon and the Glenmorangie record ) jazz rather than jazz rock fusion.
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I totally agree. Allan has taken a more straight jazz approach, though All Night Wrong put him back in the Jazz/Rock genre. ![](smileys/smiley32.gif)
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Cesar Inca
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Joined: May 19 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 4888
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Posted: August 24 2004 at 09:22 |
"... but, for instance, weather report is more jazz-funk, so arguably it shall not be here."
Well, I don't feel the same about the pre-Pastorius albums. They are more adventurous, more founded on the lines of freejazz, more somber and less structured than the Pastorius albums.
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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Posted: August 24 2004 at 07:00 |
greenback wrote:
lenny white, ...
but, for instance, weather report is more jazz-funk,
I seem to have missed those
jazz funk WR albums, please enlighten me. And as a reference point
check out Lenny White's excellent output for the last 10 years. Albums
he has done as leader and as session-musican (e.g. with Michel
Urbaniak's Urbanator), for the Hipbop Record label, are the best jazz
funk/jazz dance going down. I'm forced to pick out Lenny's superior funk version of LZ's Kashmir (ex. Edge) as one of the best jazz rock/funk tracks ever.
so arguably it shall not be here. Pat Metheny, despite he uses guitars, shall not be here, because it is more urban jazz.
Pat Metheny Group's first two albums for ECM, Pat Metheny Group and American Garage are amongst the best and earliest examples of 4th period jazz rock - along with Holdsworth's. BTW (aimed at Danbo for consideration) I would consider Holdsworth's last two studio albums (None Too Soon and the Glenmorangie record ) jazz rather than jazz rock fusion.
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BTW on the balance of things and with other jazz rock artists rightly included, JP Ponty should be here too.
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greenback
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 14 2004
Location: Canada
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Points: 3300
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Posted: August 24 2004 at 00:40 |
Most of the fusion that has rock elements should be here: solution, ekseption, brand x, passport, uzeb, bill bruford, allan holdsworth, shadowfax, spaced out, ponty, return to forever, lenny white, ...
but, for instance, weather report is more jazz-funk, so arguably it shall not be here. Pat Metheny, despite he uses guitars, shall not be here, because it is more urban jazz.
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Dan Bobrowski
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Joined: February 02 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5243
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Posted: August 24 2004 at 00:34 |
Don't forget this one;
![](http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002I9J.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
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Dan Bobrowski
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Joined: February 02 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 5243
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Posted: August 24 2004 at 00:31 |
I had much of the 70's and early eighties Ponty and I even remember seeing him on a TV show, "the Mike Douglas Show" and I am a fan of his. If Mahavishnu Orchestra/Allan Holdsworth/Return to Forever or Al DiMeola are in the archive?, what the hey, Ponty too.
I love instrumental music. I don't need words to get some "meaning" or "inspiraton" from music and I welcome this artist with open arms and .....ears.![](smileys/smiley32.gif)
![](http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002IA3.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
Edited by danbo
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: August 23 2004 at 23:49 |
Just like I said in the TD thread, if someone is ging to be here, he must be here as a whole, not just a selected part of his work. |
Nobody said something different my friend, only mentioning the best and worst J. L. Ponty albums IMO.
Iván
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Cesar Inca
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Joined: May 19 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 4888
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Posted: August 23 2004 at 22:47 |
Just like I said in the TD thread, if someone is ging to be here, he must be here as a whole, not just a selected part of his work.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19557
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Posted: August 23 2004 at 21:59 |
Danbo wrote:
Is that Super Cheese or Supper Cheese. I like a bit of Brie with sourdough and jalapeno mint sauce just before supper. |
LMAO, Being a Ponty fan, I'm sad to say it's defitely SUPER CHEESE IMHO.
Simply he never get's the point, his style is already fusion, I think he went too far with the African thing. Love African Prog' and Rock, but I believe bands like OSIBISA, Africa 70 with Ginger Baker and even Peter Gabriel achieved more success.
His violin sounds absolutely out of place with all those bongoes and native instruments.
Iván
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Dan Bobrowski
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Joined: February 02 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 5243
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Posted: August 23 2004 at 21:41 |
Is that Super Cheese or Supper Cheese. I like a bit of Brie with sourdough and jalapeno mint sauce just before supper.
![](http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002IA3.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
Edited by danbo
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: August 23 2004 at 21:35 |
I believe he's more progressive than many people who are already in the list, he has some masterpieces and some cheese also. But who doesn't?
![](http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc800/c831/c831821wcvm.jpg)
SUPER MASTERPIECE ![](smileys/smiley32.gif) ![](smileys/smiley32.gif) ![](smileys/smiley32.gif)
____________________________________________________________ ______ ________
![](http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd800/d840/d84036t0k1t.jpg)
Super Cheese ![](smileys/smiley11.gif) ![](smileys/smiley11.gif) ![](smileys/smiley11.gif)
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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Posted: August 23 2004 at 19:57 |
greenback wrote:
every fusion artist should be here |
Like many artistes, only selected parts of the Jean Luc Ponty record collection would fit here,say from King Kong The Music Of Frank Zappa, while the pre-Zappa period is straight jazz e.g. Guadalope Island and before and owes a considerable debt to Stephane Grapelli and probably Joe Venuti.
As to every" fusion artist", I don't think you can be that broad. I
prefer just the jazz rock bit of fusion. For instance, I don't
think the pioneers of British jazz fusion, Joe Harriott/John Mayer's
Indo-Jazz Fusion group would musically fit!!!!!! Neither would a lot of
the fusion heard on ECM, e.g the best selling jazz fusion album of the
90's, Jan Garbarek/The Hilliard Ensemble Officium. Neither do I think Bill Bruford's album with Ralph Towner and Eddie Gomez is prog - surely straight new jazz?
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Dan Bobrowski
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Joined: February 02 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5243
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Posted: August 23 2004 at 18:14 |
I loved Individual Choice as well. A bit simple, but the Title track and Nostalgia are beautiful recordings.
![](http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002IGF.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
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Cesar Inca
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Joined: May 19 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 4888
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Posted: August 23 2004 at 17:36 |
"I confess to being totally oblivious to his work, and thus unqualified to vote!"
No worry, fella. In case you're interested, you may get started with Enigmatic Ocean, Aurora and Imaginary Voyage. Also, as a guest, he really shines in Mahavisnhnu Orchestra's Apocalypse and Zappa's Hot Rats.
I hope I'm useful. Regards.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: August 23 2004 at 16:51 |
I confess to being totally oblivious to his work, and thus unqualified to vote!
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Dan Bobrowski
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Joined: February 02 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5243
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Posted: August 23 2004 at 16:41 |
Ponty's music was very progressive. Enigmatic Oceans is essential. The lead trade-offs between Ponty, Holdsworth and Stuermer are incendiary. A HoldsWORTHY addition to the archive. ![](smileys/smiley32.gif)
< Nice Bling
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greenback
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Joined: August 14 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3300
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Posted: August 23 2004 at 16:15 |
every fusion artist should be here
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Velvetclown
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 8548
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Posted: August 23 2004 at 16:00 |
Yes without a doubt
!!!!!!!!! He played with Zappa and Mahavishnu Orchestra and they
are both here. Ponty has made many great albums, my fav is Enigmatic
Ocean.
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Cesar Inca
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Joined: May 19 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 4888
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Posted: August 23 2004 at 15:56 |
I figured out: if lots of good fusionesque prog acts and prog acts with some fusion tendencies are listed here, why shouldn't this violinist extraordinaire be listed here, too? Hasn't his personal style and polished touch been a major influence for many prog violinists? Hasn't he performed (as the main man or as a guest) in some of the most astonishing albums of the prog/prog related genre?
I asked myself if he should... and I answered YES. I'll leave it to the rest of my fellow members and collaborators.
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