Ponty in the Archives?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1457
Printed Date: February 12 2025 at 05:55
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Topic: Ponty in the Archives?
Posted By: Cesar Inca
Subject: Ponty in the Archives?
Date Posted: August 23 2004 at 15:56
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I figured out: if lots of good fusionesque prog acts and prog acts with some fusion tendencies are listed here, why shouldn't this violinist extraordinaire be listed here, too? Hasn't his personal style and polished touch been a major influence for many prog violinists? Hasn't he performed (as the main man or as a guest) in some of the most astonishing albums of the prog/prog related genre? I asked myself if he should... and I answered YES. I'll leave it to the rest of my fellow members and collaborators. |
Replies:
Posted By: Velvetclown
Date Posted: August 23 2004 at 16:00
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Yes without a doubt
!!!!!!!!! He played with Zappa and Mahavishnu Orchestra and they
are both here. Ponty has made many great albums, my fav is Enigmatic
Ocean.
------------- Billy Connolly Dream Theater Terry Gilliam Hagen Quartet Jethro Tull Mike Keneally |
Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: August 23 2004 at 16:15
| every fusion artist should be here |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: August 23 2004 at 16:41
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Ponty's music was very progressive. Enigmatic Oceans is essential. The lead trade-offs between Ponty, Holdsworth and Stuermer are incendiary. A HoldsWORTHY addition to the archive.
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< Nice BlingPosted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: August 23 2004 at 16:51
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I confess to being totally oblivious to his work, and thus unqualified to vote! |
Posted By: Cesar Inca
Date Posted: August 23 2004 at 17:36
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"I confess to being totally oblivious to his work, and thus unqualified to vote!" No worry, fella. In case you're interested, you may get started with Enigmatic Ocean, Aurora and Imaginary Voyage. Also, as a guest, he really shines in Mahavisnhnu Orchestra's Apocalypse and Zappa's Hot Rats. I hope I'm useful. Regards. |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: August 23 2004 at 18:14
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I loved Individual Choice as well. A bit simple, but the Title track and Nostalgia are beautiful recordings.
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: August 23 2004 at 19:57
Like many artistes, only selected parts of the Jean Luc Ponty record collection would fit here,say from King Kong The Music Of Frank Zappa, while the pre-Zappa period is straight jazz e.g. Guadalope Island and before and owes a considerable debt to Stephane Grapelli and probably Joe Venuti. As to every" fusion artist", I don't think you can be that broad. I prefer just the jazz rock bit of fusion. For instance, I don't think the pioneers of British jazz fusion, Joe Harriott/John Mayer's Indo-Jazz Fusion group would musically fit!!!!!! Neither would a lot of the fusion heard on ECM, e.g the best selling jazz fusion album of the 90's, Jan Garbarek/The Hilliard Ensemble Officium. Neither do I think Bill Bruford's album with Ralph Towner and Eddie Gomez is prog - surely straight new jazz? |
greenback wrote:Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 23 2004 at 21:35
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I believe he's more progressive than many people who are already in the list, he has some masterpieces and some cheese also. But who doesn't?
SUPER MASTERPIECE ____________________________________________________________ ______ ________
Super Cheese Iván |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: August 23 2004 at 21:41
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Is that Super Cheese or Supper Cheese. I like a bit of Brie with sourdough and jalapeno mint sauce just before supper.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 23 2004 at 21:59
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Danbo wrote:
LMAO, Being a Ponty fan, I'm sad to say it's defitely SUPER CHEESE IMHO. Simply he never get's the point, his style is already fusion, I think he went too far with the African thing. Love African Prog' and Rock, but I believe bands like OSIBISA, Africa 70 with Ginger Baker and even Peter Gabriel achieved more success. His violin sounds absolutely out of place with all those bongoes and native instruments. Iván |
Posted By: Cesar Inca
Date Posted: August 23 2004 at 22:47
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Just like I said in the TD thread, if someone is ging to be here, he must be here as a whole, not just a selected part of his work. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 23 2004 at 23:49
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Nobody said something different my friend, only mentioning the best and worst J. L. Ponty albums IMO. Iván |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: August 24 2004 at 00:31
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I had much of the 70's and early eighties Ponty and I even remember seeing him on a TV show, "the Mike Douglas Show" and I am a fan of his. If Mahavishnu Orchestra/Allan Holdsworth/Return to Forever or Al DiMeola are in the archive?, what the hey, Ponty too. I love instrumental music. I don't need words to get some "meaning" or "inspiraton" from music and I welcome this artist with open arms and .....ears.
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Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: August 24 2004 at 00:34
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Don't forget this one;
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Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: August 24 2004 at 00:40
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Most of the fusion that has rock elements should be here: solution, ekseption, brand x, passport, uzeb, bill bruford, allan holdsworth, shadowfax, spaced out, ponty, return to forever, lenny white, ... but, for instance, weather report is more jazz-funk, so arguably it shall not be here. Pat Metheny, despite he uses guitars, shall not be here, because it is more urban jazz. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: August 24 2004 at 07:00
BTW on the balance of things and with other jazz rock artists rightly included, JP Ponty should be here too. |
Posted By: Cesar Inca
Date Posted: August 24 2004 at 09:22
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"... but, for instance, weather report is more jazz-funk, so arguably it shall not be here." Well, I don't feel the same about the pre-Pastorius albums. They are more adventurous, more founded on the lines of freejazz, more somber and less structured than the Pastorius albums. |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: August 24 2004 at 10:31
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I totally agree. Allan has taken a more straight jazz approach, though All Night Wrong put him back in the Jazz/Rock genre. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 24 2004 at 10:32
| I voted no. Although I have about 10 Ponty albums and saw him 5 times ( once I saw him open for Supertramp In Jarry Park in Montreal I also saw him jamming with Larry Coryell at Theatre St. Denis) however he falls into the category of fusion jazz. I don`t even think the Mahavishnu Orchestra should be included. Max, when are you going to add Mariah? |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 24 2004 at 10:34
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Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: August 24 2004 at 15:20
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They are not prog indeed! I said Uzeb is fusion and Metheny is jazz |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: August 24 2004 at 16:06
Back at the beginning of the 70's we didn't have any problems including early jazz rockers - Soft Machine, Mahavishnu, RTF - in the prog music/prog rock genre when these classic albums were first released - they were progressing rock as well as jazz - it was simple as that. No late 70's/80's, with hindsight creation of an over-complex set of definitions. So if the music was clearly (thereby hangs the problem) fusing jazz and rock, (and if come to that rock with blues, rock with folk, rock with the many variants of serious/classical repertoise or form, or rock with world) prog music now better known as progressive rock. Check out the prog samplers of the times for evidence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 25 2004 at 16:05
| The mahavishnu Orchestra attracted rock audiences but was definitely definitely NOT prog. You will notice that in music stores they always are cateloged under JAZZ. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: August 25 2004 at 19:05
I'm talking about what others are calling the home of prog rock here in the UK not Canada - and working in a record shop at the time, I known clearly where MO went on the shelves! And I remind you Canned Heat LPs were one of the first and earliest bands to go in the prog music section. Late 60's early 70's, rock fused with any other form of music was progressive! |
Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: August 25 2004 at 20:18
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...and is SRV on the rock or the blues shelf? Phooey on this train of thought. Does Ponty belong here? More or less than Tool, Mahavishnu, or Styx, for instance? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi"> 
|
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: August 25 2004 at 20:23
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I found a can of baked beans on a Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup shelf once. Took hours to figure that one out. |
Posted By: Guillermo
Date Posted: July 07 2005 at 22:48
This album has very good solos by Daryl Stuermer, J.L. Ponty and Patrice Rushen. The drummer (Norman Fearrington) and the bassist (Tom Fowler) are also very good. Yes, Ponty should be included in Progarchives. ------------- Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime. |
Posted By: Olympus
Date Posted: August 24 2005 at 02:49
Definatley  ------------- "Let's get the hell away from this Eerie-ass piece of work so we can get on with the rest of our eerie-ass day" |
Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: August 25 2005 at 03:22
disagree, not all fusion is progressive in nature, some is just a bunch of weakling making noise. all fusion should be on a jazz site. Ponty on the PROGARCHIVES? well he had a pretty good progressive period, but that brings to mind the progressive periods of some early to mid 70's american fusion bands like RTF, Billy Cobham, Herbie Hancock, Airto Moreira, Lenny White for example. If JLP deserves this status someone should explain away these artists progressive contributions. Terje Rypdahl? Jeff Beck? Ronnie Montrose? what a tangled web we weave! 
Anyway I would say a reserved........yes! 
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Posted By: Evan1211
Date Posted: August 25 2005 at 14:41
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I always wondered why he wasnt here. "Final Truth Pt. 1" and "Egocentric Molecules" are some of the most progressive songs Ive ever come across. And all of his guest musicians are superb as well! ------------- 
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: August 25 2005 at 15:09
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Yes ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Borealis
Date Posted: August 25 2005 at 18:32
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Of course yes. ------------- Vive le Québec libre!... |
Posted By: Scrambled_Eggs
Date Posted: August 25 2005 at 20:12
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Indeed he should ------------- And I am not frightened of dying, any time will do, I don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying? There's no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime. I never said I was frightened of dying. |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: September 11 2005 at 07:44
| Jean-Luc Ponty made some great progressive albums but although I own some albums and I recently bought the strong DVD Live (Poland 1999), I miss the key element 'rock', it sounds more as a wonderful blend of jazz and symphonic/classic. I rather prefer Jeff Beck with his albums Wired and There and back, to me this is more progrock. But to add Jeff Beck to this site will cause a lot of criticism I think and I won't support it because, like with Jean-Luc Ponty, his progrock period was too short in comparison with his whole musical heritage. |
Posted By: krauthead
Date Posted: October 17 2005 at 18:33
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Yes! ------------- *Dancing madly backwards on a sea of air* - Captain Beyond |
Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 03:30
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Enigmatic Ocean, Aurora or Very Best of JLPonty are
evidence. Much better progressive fusion than MOST of the Canterbury inclusion on the archives. Sorry, but the French were the best at PROGRESSIVE FUSION! Dont know exactly why but culturally they were much more naturals! If I had to fathom a reason I would say it was their love for American Jazz, European Classical/Folk musics and an ear for what Canterbury musicians were trying to accomplish. 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 05:18
well said. Instead of maintream and metal bands |
Posted By: S Lang
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 05:43
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Jazz-rock is as progressive as it can get! Some artists are better in creating unexpected treasures, Ponty is one of them - as much as I detest his ego.... He has a fine ability to choose remarkable support musicians, too. Ponty is in for sure! This site is heavily leaning towards Metal. Well, the day when I see "Proto-Metal" as a sub genre included, I'd feel less sidelined...... Until then, let's just enjoy music...? |