The Strange Omissions of the Archives |
Post Reply | Page <1234 10> |
Author | ||||
moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17516 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
The bad part of all this is the following: 1. The number of European bands that looked at SF as an inspiration, from lyrics to the expanding of the music! Europe had a classical music tradition, but what the West coast was doing was totally new and different than what studies of classical music showed! 2. The improvisational style, which Bob Weir kinda discusses on his special (excellent, btw!), is probably a lot more than most bands can do, or will try to do, when it comes to improvisation. The time I saw them, they played for almost 5 hours, even if I slept for most of it! They were still playing when I woke up to the heavy smell of a joint nearby ... and this was in the summer of 1970! 3. Amon Dull 2, in one small discussion, said that they were more inspired by some classical music, and its effects show on their first 2 albums clearly, but they close with a "stoned" piece, which might suggest that not all music will be aligned in that manner anyway, and it wasn't ... but the well defined compositions for the next 3 albums is really valuable, as things really were different and alive like most bands are not capable of doing, by simply repeating one piece or another. 4. Not all "psychedelic" was that complex at all and in some cases they merely included a different instrument, and included a kind of mix/match of instruments and ideas that tend to cause your imagination to go wild ... sort of like getting attached to the Bonzo Dog Band ... when you get done hearing 5 albums, you will probably say that is progressive ... no one can play that many different things so well, and still come up with something! 5. In some cases, "psychedelic" was an excuse to be "weird", and necessarily a proponent of a musical style that is way out of control (how can you control anything when you are seeing so many colors and everything is so different? YOU CAN'T! And music, specially, is the one art that is not really capable of doing this, as much as was done in the early days. I would be very leery in some stuff, when compared to Syd Barrett, for example, who is NOT WEIRD at all, but is mostly surrealistic ... with a modern accent but words that are really huge in terms of our perception ... there is nothing weird about his words in those two albums! Edited by moshkito - September 11 2019 at 05:49 |
||||
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
||||
richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28041 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
maybe 'contentious' would be better than 'Strange' but yes why not indeed.
|
||||
siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15245 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Personally i'd be OK with having a STRANGE OMISSIONS category here. It could be a place for all of these dubious entries that some find worthy and some don't. Why not?
|
||||
https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
||||
Spacegod87
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 16 2019 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1107 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
The Dead had some incredibly complex and intricate sounds in a lot of their songs. To me, they seemed to slingshot back and forth from that airy, bright and complex psychedelic sound to straight-forward country/blues jams... they were really all over the place (you would think that in itself would intrigue prog fans) so maybe people get confused as to where exactly the Dead lay. One foot underground and the other in a stream. They may not have always had that proggy sound, but I reckon they had it enough to warrant a place here.
|
||||
Stool Man
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 30 2007 Location: Anti-Cool (anag Status: Offline Points: 2689 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Funkadelic and Sun Ra are my two regulars on this topic, and I once tried to make a case for PiL
|
||||
rotten hound of the burnie crew
|
||||
Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5364 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Why isn't Kitschy on PA yet?
Check out their album Cupcake. |
||||
On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
||||
micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
oh dear God....
|
||||
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
||||
Jaketejas
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 27 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1990 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Again, tech and social media is a double edged sword. We write songs meaningful to us but then we have to disseminate, and that means passing through the Gates of Delirium (playlisters) to get heard. It is the best of times and the worst of times for Indie folks. My greatest joy was having a small radio show in Dorset UK pick up my proggy piece when no playlister would touch it. I'd worked 10 years on it trying to improve my technique to pull it the damn thing off. Playlisters loved it, but it didn't suit their crowd and perhaps I could make this change or that alteration. Brave New World! My poppy song that took all of 30 min to write went like hot cakes. I like both songs, but for different reasons. Yes, I would definitely include the Doors ... perhaps as proto prog? That's your job! But The Doors had a huge influence on prog. I'm also an old enough fart to remember vinyl but adventurous enough to continue pursuing my passion of music, whether or not folks here consider it prog. |
||||
moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17516 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I would say this is very incorrect, specially in LA ... they were the easiest to play by then, and best known, more than likely, and their albums would always have a BLUE DOT or two that could easily be played ... but they were not the only ones ... PF was getting some attention, Kinks, Who, Led Zep, and a lot of other bands that were not considered exactly progressive, but their music was different and stood out. And if you want to check what some of the time and place was like, go listen to the new SPACE PIRATE RADIO and maybe get a feeling of what it was like to play something different in a time, when folks do not even KNOW how different some music can be. And many of the big name stations were so "big" that the folks in it, did not care about the music ... as much as we think ... KTYD in Santa Barbara was a huge example, and the raps and insults that Guy Guden went through is not something that is wished upon anyone ... and he never even got the "gold record" he deserved for having the ear for so much music that became famous later, and some of the darlings of the music in PA's listings! Some of the bigger FM stations were already owned by some of the biggest media corporations in both LA and SF ... so why would they feel they had to "support" independent labels from Europe ... instead of their own product ... THEY DIDN'T. But there was always a DJ that did something different, but they weren't in those stations ... some of them were in lesser stations, some of them in a few Public Stations that had a very WIDE attention span (KPFK in LA was big for many artists!) ... and sometimes were more interesting than the top ten stations that many of those FM stations were becoming. AND did, by the end of the decade! The "luck of it all" was ... that a lot of music was already done, and it was done without radio ... on its own, the music scenes developed and came alive ... and eventually found themselves in some radio ... in fact Space Pirate Radio was known for being the only show where Klaus Schulze and Tangerine Dream were played ... THOROUGHLY and complete ... instead of an absolute murder of music by just sampling 2 minutes of it in the middle of pop songs! |
||||
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
||||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
^ Makes sense, be interesting to hear what was deemed "almost Symph" . |
||||
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
||||
micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
got the Janus one David.. discovered them via one of Ivan's old school symphonic death marches ... hours and hours of MSN chat going over Ivan's homework assigned to us where we evaluated and cleaned up his beloved bastion of pure symphonic prog hahaha.. you know Ivan.. no impurites, imperfections or even.. gasp.. symphonic prog albums by Deep Purple band members hahahah. God I love that man...
thus their eventual migration to where they are now...
haven't heard the other two |
||||
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
||||
moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17516 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I think it was, a reaction to a lot of socio/philosophical things ... and a time when "reactions" were valued and appreciated, when today, we allow someone to "trash" it down to "remove" its value altogether ... and the worse part, using social media to gather up fake support ... many of those folks couldn't careless. The early days of "progressive music" were not about songs ... it might have been thought of that by an audience that knew nothing else ... but a lot of the folks doing it, were more interested in expanding the focus of a lot of music at the time, from the limits of radio, and the record companies. It's similar to the comment that Tom Dowd made in his special about black music being sent to the minors because the studios wanted their STARS to record and sing and become even more famous to get better ticket sales on the movies they made ... which took away a lot of the places for LP's by black musicians in a lot of places in America ... but in the end, the stars did not win that discussion at all ... black music became far more important and valuable than most "stars" singing ... and many of them even were laughed of and satirized for it! We can not fathom, or understand ... this meaningful era and moments it created in the arts ... today, the media surrounding everything, makes sure that THEIR blockbusters get shown on their papers and news print, and you automatically think that these are important and the hits you gotta see ... and your ability to make a go, and a decision on purchasing something else ... supposedly of lesser value ... is compromised ... because your neighbors and friends all think that GGGGOOOOGOOOOSheepDip is far out ... because of all the advertising. The majority of the early days of "progressive" didn't care about this stuff as much as 99% of all the bands and "fans" today ... progressive music ... TODAY ... would not, more than likely, have even started with TODAY'S FAN ... thinking that too much of this is meandering, and that 147,000 notes determines metal, and that loudness is important so the fans feel blown away at the end of the show! On top of it, the disrespect ... FANS telling an artist that their song is too long ... or too stupid! We were very lucky ... the time and place allowed us to get away from that ... and until such a time as fans stop being subservient to the social media and controls of a lot of the top ten music media ... I seriously doubt that "progressive" can improve and develop ... and of course, this is where PA needs to help the music more ... but sadly, too many "disagreements" are a problem ... we need to respect music more ... although I am somewhat "hesitant" to add a vote for a band that was about its hits, and not as much of the music, even if their albums showed some more respect for the music and its improvement and change ... but in the end ... I'm not sure that just a part of what we consider valuable and important to the arts is what we should be paying attention to ... most of the fans for that band, were more enamored with the smoking pipe shaped by the name of the band, and smoking it, than they were about how good and valuable the music was ... which tells you that the focus was not the proper concept ... the idea of being cool with it was ... and it was a hit at parties, let me tell you, in those days at UCSB. Do I want that band in PA? I think they should be ... do they need to be? I don't think they could careless if they were or not and more than likely dismiss PA and its content outright. For that alone I would not vote for it. But their fans, and wonderful list of songs, is hard to ignore ... and it feels just like The Doors, that also had some far out hit songs that a lot of folks think are not progressive and should not have made the inclusion of the band for it ... Light My Fire being one of them ... the meaning of the whole thing being one of the most important parts of what "progressive" really meant at the time ... you were either "WITH IT" or you "WEREN'T" ... and it separated the haves from the have nots and the squares from everyone else ... it got that bad and worse ... and specially after that song about wearing flowers in your hair when the Bay Area got invaded by the greatest swarm of insects and idiots ...
|
||||
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
||||
Jaketejas
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 27 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1990 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
That was another great thing about vinyl. The artwork really stood out in all its glory.
|
||||
Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10618 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
^ I just love going through a stack of obscure old albums, those are great album covers that certainly would have gotten my attention.
|
||||
Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
||||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I'm amazed I even still enjoy prog as much as I do, that I still look forward to going to Amoeba Records, smelling the pulp, fingering through reissues of ancient one-shot wonders that didn't sell more than ten albums in 1972, taking a chance on a trippy cover and grainy photo of four waste-cases on the back, taking it home and being either appalled or, less often, overjoyed at what a little jewel I just discovered. Case in point : PA tags them as Krautrock, and then I'm reminded that most "Krautrock" wasn't a style it was just arty rock coming from Germany. Next up two more unheard gambles -- and -- Edited by Atavachron - August 02 2019 at 19:42 |
||||
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
||||
Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10618 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Its interesting a lot of the history to this music that folks don't know.
In the early 70s, the US progressive rock FM stations were pushing two new stars from England as the fresh new blood that was going to modernize progressive rock and keep things happening, and those two were Elton John and David Bowie. They both ended up doing other things of course. Edited by Easy Money - August 02 2019 at 19:40 |
||||
Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
||||
micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
what's stopping you.. a system that barely functioned.. and royally f**ked it up anyway with caprcious and poltically driven decisions... a decade or more ago.
just add them... I would.. there is no one really left that runs this site anymore and yes.. you are right... there is a story to be told with that group. And if it isn't told here.. where the f**k is it going to be told. in fact.. I may just take my own advice.. and finally get the goddamned Velvet Underground added here. A collossel failure by the site to have not added.... why even have a proto prog section and NOT have that band. I might start working on that after I get back from orientation for the new job.
|
||||
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
||||
Jaketejas
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 27 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1990 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Hopefully the guy with the pan isn't the judge and the spoon his magic wand. Or has he discovered a new sub genre? Seriously, though, to an artist who has worked on a project over a long period of time while working 2 jobs and investing their hard won coin on their music, these questions are relevant. If you read some of the comments on here, you can see why bands may have some concerns. Edited by Jaketejas - August 02 2019 at 19:53 |
||||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
^ saw John play in S.F. several times, always a treat. |
||||
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
||||
Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10618 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
The one band I would add is Quicksilver Messenger Service to proto-prog. They have full on prog rock songs and their first tour of England inspired many of the early English prog bands, but very few here really know the history of this stuff, too busy re-writing it by today's perspective.
They sort of did for progressive rock what the Ramones did for punk, that is they kicked off the start in the UK. Edited by Easy Money - August 02 2019 at 19:27 |
||||
Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
||||
Post Reply | Page <1234 10> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |