Tool/Top 100??

King of Loss wrote: That review sucks! PoS is much better as a Prog unit that is not afraid to experiment instead of a boring, old Prog Metal band

Be isn't really prog metal, it has more of symphonic prog sound. SFAM
is better bo all means. Not too much emotion, brilliant musicianship,
complex compositions, barely any extra talking. I'm not saying that Be is
bad, it's just not perfect,

btw, I ordered Concrete Lake and Remedy lane through that link you
gave me in the mariah thread.  Both for $20www.progarchives.com/
forum/smileys/smiley4.gif"> I was about to pay that for RL alone on
amazon. Thanks

GoldenSpiral wrote: Drew wrote: Ok if Tool is here- lets add Audioslave, Motograter, Ill Nino and other bands or the sort. Why not? wow.  that is so ignorant I almost dont know what to say. but I'll try. I really wish I didnt have to keep defending Tool like I do.  I know a lot of people don't like them and that's fine.  Tool fans can be very annoying as they rabidly defend their band and declare Maynard their God.  However, that aside, let's look at the music.  or, since you cant really look at it, listen to it.  If you ever had, you'd quickly realize that Tool has nothing at all in common with Audioslave, motograter or Ill Nino.  Tool has much more in common with King Crimson, and really the only other band they can be compared to is themselves.   The music is incredibly layered, complex, mathematical, melodic and meticulously structured.  Visual art is highly featured in both their albums and live shows.  please see the definition of progressive rock on the homepage if this does not clear things up for you.  I really don't want to say this anymore, but JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE IT DOESNT MEAN ITS NOT PROGRESSIVE.  Audioslave = soundgarden and RATM dumped in a bowl and peed on. Ill Nino = Nu metal Motograter = metal.

I don't understand various things you've stated. I don't hear layers, complexity, mathematics, melody (not everywhere?) and meticulous structures in Tool. What is your credibility, and why are you correct? I still don't see what makes Tool prog or not, you're another fan, no? I see a fan's opinions, but little facts. And yes I have seen the definition of "progressive rock" on the "homepage." JUST BECAUSE YOU LIKE IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S PROGRESSIVE.

"Progressive rock artists sought to move away from the limitations of radio formatted rock and pop, and "progress" rock to the point that it could achieve the sophistication of jazz or classical music." - "Prog Rock?" Page. Every kid I know who listens to modern rock loves Tool, how could this be? Are we progressing now? How so? Tool is on every modern rock station in my city, they have hooks (Or catches) that grab a young audience. The Mars Volta and Radiohead can't even say that - two controversial bands, should they be here? Maybe. A hook (The thing that grabs you) is something used and recognized very often in Rap/hiphop, pop, modern rock, and classic rock to attract wide audiences, but in prog? Not as common in the modern groups, hence modern prog-bands not being on the radio as less people are attracted to them. Tool does not have this characteristic, just look at fanbase and album sales and also what kind of people are listening.

The Following are -quotes/not necessarily universal characteristics- from the "Prog Rock?" definition page:

let's have a look, shall we....?

"Long compositions, sometimes running over 20 minutes, with intricate melodies and harmonies that require repeated listening to grasp."
Tool's songs are epics in their own right, they average over 7 minutes, "Third Eye" on Aenima is over 13 minutes.  The songs "Disposition" "Reflection" and "Triad" on Lateralus were originally conceived as one song, but later split.  together they add up to over 20 minutes.

"Lyrics that convey intricate and sometimes impenetrable narratives, covering such themes as science fiction, fantasy, history, religion, war, love, and madness."
Umm..... listen to Lateralus or Aenima.  they lyrics are quite dense, but are more metaphysical then storytelling.

"Concept albums, in which a theme or storyline is explored throughout an entire album in a manner similar to a film or a play."
Lateralus and Aenima could each be argued as a concept album, but loosely as in a DSOTM sort of concept.  Not all prog bands need concept albums anyway.

"Unusual vocal styles and use of multi-part vocal harmonies. See Magma, Robert Wyatt, and Gentle Giant."
Maynard has an unusual vocal style.  if you cannot hear that, try listening.

"Prominent use of electronic instrumentation — particularly keyboard instruments such as the organ, piano, Mellotron, and Moog synthesizer..."
Not all prog bands use these, but a good portion of Danny Carey's drum set is electronic, plus he uses tabla drums.

"Use of unusual time signatures, scales, or tunings. Many pieces use multiple time signatures and/or tempi, sometimes concurrently. Solo passages for virtually every instrument, designed to showcase the virtuosity of the player."
While Tool does not generally indulge in outright displays of virtuosity, they CERTAINLY use unusual time signatures.  Take the RADIO SINGLE "Scism" for example, which is in 12/8 time comprised of alternating measures of 5/8 and 7/8.  Their other RADIO SINGLE "Lateralus" features a 3-measure chorus riff in which each measure progresses from 9/8 to 8/8 to 7/8.  These are only 2 examples out of many.

"Inclusion of classical pieces on albums. For example, Yes start their concerts with a taped extract of Stravinsky's Firebird suite..."
So they dont draw from classical influences directly.  so what?

"An aesthetic linking the music with visual art, a trend started by The Beatles with Sgt. Pepper's and enthusiastically embraced during the prog heyday."

Ask yourself how many of these apply to Tool. Yes, as the person I have quoted has asked, do please check the definition page. I've attempted to play devil's advocate in an unbias way in response to a Tool-fan - and that is all.

ALL OF THEM APPLY TO TOOL.
any thing else I can help you with?

Tool don't have many prog - characteristics?Since when all the bands should use some patterns that claim to be prog-characterestics ...?In my head Ozric tentacles sounds as progressive as Hawkwind.And Gong as progressive as Camel.Open your mind ...!