AntiFa: Principled Vandals or Just Thugs?

Logan wrote: Neither fascists nor AntiFa come across as very loving, pacifistic, or tolerant to me. Both want to control the rhetoric/ conversation, but then, to be cliche. everybody wants to rule the world.

Funny, I've always thought ruling the world would really, really suck.

that is the point Greg... what has love, peace, tolerance and a deep apathy to the forces at play give us....

The T wrote: Principled thugs.  Their hearts are (somewhat) on the right place. But they are going to do more harm than good to the cause  Again, comparing them with fascists and nazis is incredibly idiotic. These groups want to specifically destroy a group of people. Antifa just want to destroy the destruction, so to speak. In theory, eliminate nazis and you eliminate Antifa.  Having said that, a true, not thuggish extreme left alternative is needed...

Edited by micky - September 05 2017 at 13:22

Principled thugs. 

Most of them I think fall under the category of stupid thugs, all of them should practice some self-reflection.

Edited by someone_else - September 04 2017 at 02:19

The best champions of a principle are not always the best practitioners of a principle. Such as it is. They have not yet sunk to the depths of depravity of those they oppose, but time will tell.

Both to an extent. Antifa is not a homogeneous group, many are anarchists who seem to delight in violence, disruption, and destruction. but the group's principles commonly include notions such as the end justifies, and are illiberal -- intolerant to any with opposing views. It attracts bad, by my standards, people. Some good ones too, I'm sure, who feel that are making a positive difference.

A group like that is going to attract thugs, and their action echo the hate and violence of the groups that they despise. That people in their ranks wear masks and largely remain anonymous is worrisome, but then the anarchist component hates the state and of course they anticipate their extralegal activities (come armed for the fight too). I'm sure that many of them revel in the new political climate in the US and elsewhere and since they don't trust the law, they are all too happy to take the law into their own hands -- how empowering.

A lot of them at demonstrations/ rallies, no doubt, are rebels without a clue, and just out for mischief.   Their actions also are leading to more support for their enemies and for ideologies that they oppose.

Antifa is a hate group that opposes hate groups, and like their extremist, fascistic counterparts, it attracts the dispossessed, the angry who feellike life let them down, alienated people who feel powerless and lack a sense of purpose, and it attracts thugs who enjoy violence, mayhem, and mischief. While ostensibly antiauthoritarian, Antifa wants to become THE authority, respect us or suffer. To them violent and property-damaging (vandalism) extralegal activities are justifiable. Such angry people in their ranks. Instead of attempting dialogue they disrupt, instead of peaceful resistance they support violent resistance, instead of dialectic they shout over, and instead of rationality they feed on base, raw emotions. And a lot of them find it fun.

To be antifascist and anti-racist is a good thing in my books, but I am a believer in central tenants of liberal democracy such as free speech (except in cases where it incites violence). When they shout people down and take over events, they are not giving people the chance to speak freely, and they believe that these people have no right to be heard. Many of them come across as very irrational and their tactics often seem quite fascist to me.

Love trumps hate in my books, maybe if more of them showed love they would be better able to trump Trump and his supporters (really since Trump came into power, and was in the running, that they have been really emboldened, but such groups have been around for a long time.