Future Days: Krautrock and the Building Of Germany |
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 24 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 8614 |
Posted: March 17 2015 at 09:36 |
The term Krautrock and what it refers to and how people feel about it and react to it, has evolved over the years, as people in this thread have pointed out. I think today, the term can be used with a straight face, but I can still understand the negative connotations the term has evoked in the past. And even the term "teutonic" doesn't have the same "bite" as it once did.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 16 2015 at 11:41 |
Never liked the term, then I've always felt that Kosmische Musik is an inadequate descriptor too, and Teutonic has prior connotations which makes it just as inappropriate in some ways. Fortunately we've all grown up since the 1970s and many (admittedly non-Prog) bands have emerged from Germany that have not been tagged with what is essentially a derogatory handle.
As alternative reading, there is always this book: Music Culture and "Kosmische" Rock by Philippe Blanche. |
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What?
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
Posted: March 16 2015 at 10:15 |
Hi,
You can get a feel for Julian Cope's on his website and on the Inet ... and honestly, if I had to go by his comments, I probably would never have bothered. They are nothing but a stoned kid talking aobut what he thought was real stoney music.
In fact, a lot of this music has less drugs than any other scene anywhere! Some of it had it, but then it's like saying that SF did not have the pscyh's, NY didn't have the heroin, and London did not have ... whatever ... and so on. They all did ... but the question and end result is ... what came out of it? And in most cases, it was all killed due to the drug abuse, because the music was not "bigger" or "better" or "artistically motivated".
I have more respect for my generation, than just the fact that so many of them were nothing but dopers! And there were a lot of us that were not dopers ... we didn't need to be! And we still "got it"! Edited by moshkito - March 16 2015 at 10:19 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: February 16 2015 at 09:32 |
^As I've read neither, I will pass this question on to my grandson who is the family expert (fanatic?) on Krautrock and will got back to you. He's the one who lent me the posted book in the first place.
In truth, I attempted to read Cope's book once but quickly lost interest.
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 03 2008 Location: Là, sui monti. Status: Offline Points: 10841 |
Posted: February 16 2015 at 06:43 |
About the book: how does it compare to Julian Cope's Krautrocksampler (that I don't recommend), to Nikos Kotsopoulos' Krautrock: Cosmic Rock and Its Legacy or other books (I would quote Eric Deshayes' Au-dela du Rock, but I'm not sure non-French speaking people are aware of this book)?
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: February 16 2015 at 03:49 |
No worries Steve. I tend to forget where I post, so I probably have a fair few posts scattered around PA that I haven't responded to
Thanks for the heads up though. Seems like the 'Krautrock' moniker often stands for German bands instead of a distinct style, which core is comprised of freeform, motorik grooves, electronic experiments and a touch of the avantguarde. |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: February 15 2015 at 12:41 |
Edited by SteveG - February 15 2015 at 15:02 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
Posted: February 14 2015 at 11:10 |
And Edgar Froese said something similar on that BBC special.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: February 14 2015 at 10:35 |
I see Birth Control is mentioned in the book, Steve. That is a bit of a surprise for me actually as I've never thought of them as being part of that scene - other than they're from Germany. Hard rock with progressive leanings sure, but there's a distinct deficit of the kosmische and unfathomable that I have come to adore and associate with Krautrock. No improvs and crazy sh*t that slings you out in the furthest part of the perimeter. Jane, Lucifer's Friend, King Ping Meh, Hölderlin and the likes often get mentioned in the same breath as ADII, Can and NEU!, but to my ears neither of these bands came close to what I'd call Krautrock. I guess what I'm trying to ask is this: is this a book on the German music scene during the 70s or does it deal with the Krautrock scene proper?
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: February 14 2015 at 10:23 |
^Yes, in truth I know many younger people who use the term without any bad intent. It's simply become part of the rock music lexicon.
Now, let's get back to this wonderful book!
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: February 14 2015 at 10:15 |
I do think it's a generational thing. Like I mentioned earlier, I have quite a few German friends (old and young) who are into the style, and they tend to use Krautrock much like people use the word prog. I very much doubt whether anyone in this day and age instantly thinks of WWII whenever they come across the expression. Maybe if they just caught Saving Private Ryan on the tube
Heck, if anything, there seems to be a lot of upcoming bands who think of 'Krautrock' as a badge of honour (just like many on here think of 'Prog', which is rather futile). There are soooo many bands (pop, rock and even those new tricky Folktronica outfits) who employ the motorik groove of yesteryear, slap on some cold 70s synths and wham bam thank you mam: you've got some Krautrock! (or so they think) Yeah....not really....but it is a highly sought out sticker, which then becomes just a sticker.....and that is definitely not what the music is and was about. Anyway, let's get your thread back on track Steve. I wish I had more time for reading, but when I finally find a little peace and quiet, I tend to reach for Kerouac, Hesse or Huxley instead. Maybe I need to get out more |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: February 14 2015 at 10:00 |
^In all fairness to David, I'm quite a bit older have some mental stigma attached to the word, but it has been in use for years in many media and magazine publications without any serious backlash that I know of.
I respect your feelings on this matter, but I doubt that any who loves German electronic rock would use the term Krautrock with any malicious intent. Should the term it be avoided if possible? I think so, but the part about it being possible will be very difficult until the term becomes outdated in worldwide media sites, books, magazines and other publications.
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Guy Guden
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 07 2014 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 2617 |
Posted: February 13 2015 at 20:58 |
That's interesting Guldbamsen, because my experience has been the exact opposite. In the '70s up to 1982, when I was in Munich obtaining footage of German musicians for SPACE PIRATE VIDEO, everyone in the music business HATED the term. Record label owners, producers, members of Amon Duul, they loathed the English
importers slapping those "Krautrock" labels on the records. You may be right about the Old School feeling, however. It is a term, based on a WW2 stereotype, of a defeated, inferior enemy nation. Unfair to many. Like Werner Herzog said, "We are a nation without Fathers. Only Grandfathers." So put away those labels for Ange and Magma and Heldon that say Frogrock. :)X.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: February 13 2015 at 15:46 |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: February 13 2015 at 15:44 |
^Yes indeed. Even if these groups are not prominently featured, they certainly get coverage.
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: February 13 2015 at 14:54 |
SteveG wrote This is a thought provoking work as well as being scholarly and well researched. I simply cannot recommend this book enough to both casual and serious fans of German electronic music. 5/5 stars.
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I guess we got off on a name thing. Back to the book. Is it specifically about electronic music or does it discuss other styles like Birth Control, Gift, Guru Guru, etc?
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: February 13 2015 at 13:51 |
Most German musicians including the ones who were there at the very beginning have absolutely no quarrels with the name. Most fans of the style, including the native speakers, feel similarly - at least the ones I've spoken to.
Then again, if you're from an older generation I can see how this issue can be somewhat disrespectful. I remember talking to my dad about an area of town we lived in when I was a small kid. The newspapers called it a 'ghetto' as most other folks visiting the place would. My dad got furious because he knows the word from WWII - not having a clue as to how the word has evolved over time. Krautrock may have started out as a derogatory term, but it has since then turned into quite the opposite.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: February 13 2015 at 13:24 |
I hear what you're saying, you didn't make up the name. I see it used all over the music related sites on the internet and I have no real problem with it, I just never got into the habit of using it. |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: February 13 2015 at 12:50 |
^If I wrote the book I would have called it Post War Teutonic Rock Groupen Music.
But it wasn't up to me. And for the record, PA designates this genre as K****rock.
Edited by SteveG - February 13 2015 at 13:12 |
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: February 13 2015 at 12:45 |
I don't care for the name and never use it to describe the style of music.
I have many albums by several 70s German bands and list them regularly on the what are you listening to thread. I've never used the name in the comments I post with the album cover.
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