Socialism.. does anyone have a clue.

Tony R wrote: Be careful of confusing modern Socialism with Communism or Marxism.

Tony R wrote: As an Atheist I find it INCREDIBLE that any Christian could possibly not favour a socialist based ideology (with any of its perceived weaknesses) over Capitalism/Right Wing/Republican ideologies. Your Christ would not approve of you voting against social welfare.

NaturalScience wrote: micky wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: If our education system is any indication of the government's managerial skills, then they should stay out of business. The quality of our educational system is entirely dependent on the wealth of your neighborhood. hahahhah   and if the government even tried to intrude on that uniquely local govenment responsibility....  oh how the people on the right would cry socialism huh?  They already do!  The Department of Education has something like a $70 billion budget!

oh hardly....  if that was anything more than a drop in the bucket as to what the real costs of education and who manages education... the local level.. county city state...we wouldn't have the inequality of education ...at the public level we do.  You know that Pat...  your quality of education depends on where you live... hat is the result of local taxes.. which in turn pay for education.

LinusW wrote: In Sweden you're given a government "allowance" each month for studying at university. A third of it is simply given to you, paid by the tax payers, while two thirds are loaned money, which you have to pay back (with quite low interest) once you've graduated and started working. Naturally, you have to finish the courses, naturally you have pass the courses. You're only allowed to get this money for 7 years of studying, which covers a master programme + 2 years extra. The point is of course to give everyone who wants to study, the chance to study, no matter how wealthy your family is. Just to shift the discussion from CEOs. What do you think about this?

Don, I don't know if the system in Sweden is the same as in Finland, but if it is, you forgot to say that you have to pass a test in order to be admitted to study at university (something that rarely happens in Italy). If you fail, you're sure not to be given anything.

I think we are brainwashed into believing that the only viable system is Capitalism because that is the status quo.
Be careful of confusing modern Socialism with Communism or Marxism.

I'm a member of the British Labour Party (Socialist) but anyone accusing me of being a Communist best have a very big stick with which to protect themselves with...

Many European countries operate just fine and dandy with a progressive form of Socialist Govt in place. I think social reform and welfare are fine things that any self-respecting civilised country would want to aspire to, It's just the paying for it that is the problem. I favour progressive taxation with an obligation to pay. Large companies or self-employed should all pay their share without being taxed into oblivion.

As an Atheist I find it INCREDIBLE that any Christian could possibly not favour a socialist based ideology (with any of its perceived weaknesses) over Capitalism/Right Wing/Republican ideologies. Your Christ would not approve of you voting against social welfare.

Slartibartfast wrote: NaturalScience wrote: huh?  They already do!  The Department of Education has something like a $70 billion budget! And the only way to do a better job of educating is to cut out all the money spent on it.

Are you serious or being sarcastic?

Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: At some point you have to recognize the power of "Stop bitching and work harder to get what you want."  It's a fairly proven method. I have some reading you need to do but probably won't: Bait and Switch: The (Futile) Pursuit of the American Dream Paperback now available! Metropolitan Books Bait and Switch highlights the people who’ve done everything right -- gotten college degrees, developed marketable skills, and built up impressive résumés -- yet have become repeatedly vulnerable to financial disaster, and not simply due to the vagaries of the business cycle. Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America May 2001 Metropolitan Books Millions of Americans work for poverty-level wages, and one day Barbara Ehrenreich decided to join them. She was inspired in part by the rhetoric surrounding welfare reform, which promised that any job equals a better life.

I'd love to read them, but I can't afford them.   I'm living the first book's description anyway.

micky wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: If our education system is any indication of the government's managerial skills, then they should stay out of business. The quality of our educational system is entirely dependent on the wealth of your neighborhood. hahahhah   and if the government even tried to intrude on that uniquely local govenment responsibility....  oh how the people on the right would cry socialism

huh?  They already do!  The Department of Education has something like a $70 billion budget!

No Child Left Behind?  That's a massive federal "intrusion" on school systems.


Edited by NaturalScience - March 26 2009 at 12:38

Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: If our education system is any indication of the government's managerial skills, then they should stay out of business. The quality of our educational system is entirely dependent on the wealth of your neighborhood.

hahahhah   and if the government even tried to intrude on that uniquely local govenment responsibility....  oh how the people on the right would cry socialism

Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: If our education system is any indication of the government's managerial skills, then they should stay out of business. The quality of our educational system is entirely dependent on the wealth of your neighborhood.

Entirely?  Really?