Socialism.. does anyone have a clue.

James wrote: I'd say the opposite, Drew.  I think Socialism means a lot less now.  Many people guffaw and snort at it as if it's evil.   Most people have no clue even what it is.  Socialists are derided more than Communists in my mind.  Very weird.

Well except for the Chinese, I think communism is basically not the official form of any other major government on earth.

stonebeard wrote: I don't believe Jesus said anything about the means of production being in the hands of the workers. Socialism means a lot more now than when Marx wrote the Manifesto, as far as I can tell.

The meek shall inherit the Earth once the means of production is in the hands of the meek.

Tony R wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: so⋅cial⋅ism 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. 2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. 3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles. Hmmm, let me try an analogy... Christianity: 1. A minor offshoot of Judaism founded 100 years ago in Judea....

Hey now, I was just saying I had a clue.

To Stonebeard's point, it's also worth noting that Jesus nothing documented to say about a lot of things.  WWJDTV?  What would Jesus do about TeleVision, etc?


Edited by Slartibartfast - March 26 2009 at 13:57

Epignosis wrote: Negoba wrote: Most thinking Christians do support a socialist based ideology.       For church, maybe (which is run on voluntary donations, not taxes). I think your statement is a terrible over-generalization, by the way.  (Most Christians I know- and I know many- are staunch fiscal conservatives).

and someone like me might infer that they aren't really Christians...

Slartibartfast wrote: so⋅cial⋅ism 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. 2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. 3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

I have a clue, I have a clue!!!

This of course puts me light years ahead of most conservative blowhards.


Edited by Slartibartfast - March 26 2009 at 13:54

Anachronistic ethnocentrism - that's a lot of letters. And to some degree correct. But seeing as "Socialist" is a very broad term, you can infer from, yes even the Bible, some socialist tendencies. But yes to compare that to anything resembling our market is just following your own thought streams.

Epignosis wrote: Negoba wrote: stonebeard wrote: Epignosis wrote: You know, you could get an MBA, work your way up and become a CEO and make millions.  Nobody's stopping you. Tell that to everyone in the world. In capitalism, not everyone can be a CEO. There have to be people to be pissed on. That's why pure capitalism is cover-my-eyes scary ass f**k.   The only way to "Work your way up" is to bend over many many times and then to return the favor many times over to those less fortunate. It is inherently predatory. Exactly stone- not everyone can be a CEO.  I probably couldn't.  I'm not whining about it though. And face it- some people get "pissed on" because they have no sense or restraint (Would you trust compulsive gamblers or alcoholics with a "fresh start" financially?)

So, that predatory, aspiring CEOs screw over anyone who gets in their way, it's...the fault of he who is screwed over? I hope to Zeus I'm interpreting that wrong.

Point is, capitalism is founded on greed, selfishness, and screwing over others. If it is not tempered (hopefully highly) with socialism, it is inhumane, evil, and will corrupt the society entirely and to its core.

Negoba wrote: stonebeard wrote: Epignosis wrote: You know, you could get an MBA, work your way up and become a CEO and make millions.  Nobody's stopping you. Tell that to everyone in the world. In capitalism, not everyone can be a CEO. There have to be people to be pissed on. That's why pure capitalism is cover-my-eyes scary ass f**k.   The only way to "Work your way up" is to bend over many many times and then to return the favor many times over to those less fortunate. It is inherently predatory.

Exactly stone- not everyone can be a CEO.  I probably couldn't.  I'm not whining about it though.

And face it- some people get "pissed on" because they have no sense or restraint (Would you trust compulsive gamblers or alcoholics with a "fresh start" financially?)

Logan wrote: Epignosis wrote: Negoba wrote: Most thinking Christians do support a socialist based ideology.       For church, maybe (which is run on voluntary donations, not taxes). I think your statement is a terrible over-generalization, by the way.  (Most Christians I know- and I know many- are staunch fiscal conservatives). I find Evangelicals tend to be much more fiscally conservative than the congregations in churches I have belonged to (I grew up in the Anglican Church but my wife was Pentecostal).  She'd  even attended a seminar on why Jesus was a Conservative, whereas I saw Jesus as much  more of a socialist.  I'm not religious, by the way.

I've heard both sides, but to be honest, seeing Jesus either way amounts to little more than anachronistic ethnocentrism.

Epignosis wrote: Negoba wrote: Most thinking Christians do support a socialist based ideology.       For church, maybe (which is run on voluntary donations, not taxes). I think your statement is a terrible over-generalization, by the way.  (Most Christians I know- and I know many- are staunch fiscal conservatives).

I find Evangelicals tend to be much more fiscally conservative than the congregations in churches I have belonged to (I grew up in the Anglican Church but my wife was Pentecostal).  She'd  even attended a seminar on why Jesus was a Conservative, whereas I saw Jesus as much  more of a socialist.  I'm not religious, by the way.


Edited by Logan - March 26 2009 at 13:10