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Proletariat 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1882
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 Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:30 |
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Oh yea and next up is Yes, so get over it, I can like... no love rap. and I can love Prog. Dont call me close minded
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Proletariat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1882
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:29 |
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Hmmm... just to let you know "homogonized HD TV channel" My oddly politically oppinioned mind is at this verry moment taking in some deep thoughts via Immortal Technique (if you dont know who that is he is an anti-establishment socialistic rapper, I reccomend Revolutionary vol.I)
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:27 |
 MHDTV wrote:
2. I've heard quite a few modern prog bands, and I think the majority of them aren't the least bit original. I'm calling all the music you like crap, far from it, I've only commented on modern prog bands, and I haven't said they're all bad. I said I think most of them are just recycling what they grew up listening.
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So...you're not calling all modern prog bad, just MOST modern prog. I agree, no biggie. 
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MHDTV
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 144
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:25 |
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Just a reminder: I'm not calling everyone here close minded. I don't think there's anything wrong with not liking Hip Hop. I don' think all modern prog is recycled crap. I think a good deal of modern prog bands are recycled crap, and that prog has gone downhill in the past few years. Before any of you post read the whole thread. I've probably already said something in response to a reply almost identical to yours.
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Freak yo' swerve
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MHDTV
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 144
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:20 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
MHDTV wrote:
Holy f**k, I was commenting on the current state of prog, not in general.
That's not thecurrent state of Prog, I insist your knowledge of new Prog bands sounds very limited.
I joined the forums after all.
Good for that, I'm sure you'll enjoy the new tendencies
Stop making a big deal out of the prog-pop comment. It's irrevelant.
Don't worry about that, I don't even believe such thing as Pop Prog exists, but others do, and they don't deserve to read it sucks without at least a coherent argument.
When I say 'prog is stale', I don't mean universally. I mean most of it is recycled crap.
False again, seems you haven't heard new Prog, for your list the only remotely modern band you heard is Radiohead.
BTW: Please, stop calling CRAP to the music we like, there are bands that sound as in the 70's and most of us believe are great, you come hear to say that our favorite music is crap and you call us close mnded?
I lobve Shadow Circus and Magenta, both are rooted in the 70's, how you call them crap and ask tolerance for Hip Hop?
I fail to see how any kind of Hip-Hop is killing music. I mean, what does it matter if 50 Cent tops the charts, it's not hurting anyone, it doesn't stop people from making good music.
I doi believe it hurts, lowers the standards and the qualitry of music, people are less receptive to more elaborate music.
But, everybody is entitled to his/her taste.
Iván
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1. Just drop this argument, once again, it has no relevance.
2. I've heard quite a few modern prog bands, and I think the majority of them aren't the least bit original. I'm calling all the music you like crap, far from it, I've only commented on modern prog bands, and I haven't said they're all bad. I said I think most of them are just recycling what they grew up listening.
3. Hip Hop can be as elaborate or simplistic as the maker wants. It can be a mix of psychedelia, Jazz, and Metal, or it can be a pop song with someone rapping over it. Pop music has always been mainly simple, formulaic 3 minute songs. Hip Hop hasn't changed that.
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Freak yo' swerve
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:10 |
Besides Immortal Treaon, I'm really not a fan of rap/hip hop.
Though I do highly respect rap.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:04 |
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Did I get here to late? Is anyone still interested?
I love late 80s hip-hop and mid-90s trip-hop, very creative music!!!
Some favorites include Public Enemy, EPMD, Eric B and Rakim, Ice T, Depth Charge, Jonah Sharpe and NWA.
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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 21:41 |
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C'mon, any musical genre whose participants routinely murder each other can't be all bad.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 20:28 |
chamberry wrote:
YesGoblin wrote:
the acutal music part is all programmed with drum machines and fake music |
And? There are alot of music genre who's music is based on drum machine and beats and that doesn't make it any less artistic.
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I agree Chamberry even when as a former drummer I hate drum machines, must admit that asa COMPLEMENT and programmed by a real drummer (A drum machine is close to the skillds of the rummer who programmed it but klacks of originality and invemntive), I agree with you.
So if you play with real keys, real guitars, real bass and a drum machine, the resiults can be pretty decent.
But in the case of most samplers they:
- Sample the melody
- Sample the vocals
- Add drum machines that are programed to boost a a loud but low range chord over and over.
- I you are lucky they will add a couple instruments, but of course programmed by a computer.
So the difference is obvious....Where is the creativity in the second case?
Again I personally don't like Rap, but there muust be a good artist somewhere (I haven't listened him yet), but I wouldn't go to Hiphop Archives and tell them..."Hey all your music is repetitive crap and it sucks"
Probably they will ban me after insulting three generations before me and cursing 5 generations of my descendants.
Iván
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65250
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 20:17 |
YesGoblin wrote:
and besides quite frankly all rap is more or less the same |
that's incorrect , which is the attitude we all seem to be addressing (in fact there was a period when hip hop was the most creative form going)
chamberry wrote:
YesGoblin wrote:
the acutal music part is all programmed with drum machines and fake music |
And? There are alot of music genre who's music is based on drum machine and beats and that doesn't make it any less artistic.
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that's right
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 19:52 |
chamberry wrote:
YesGoblin wrote:
the acutal music part is all programmed with drum machines and fake music |
And? There are alot of music genre who's music is based on drum machine and beats and that doesn't make it any less artistic.
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Yes... you can actually make wonders with drum machines and fake music.... how can music be fake? Music is music.. organized sound... if you hear notes with some organization , it's music... period.... IT CAN'T BE FAKE... only fake music would be..... literature? Poetry? Motion Pictures? Those are NOT music... so you can say that if somebody tells you those are music, those would be FAKE music... but ANY music, awful, poor, childish, weak, atrocious, whatever, as long as it's music, IS MUSIC. The "truth or falsehood" in music doesn't depend on which instruments play it... even if it's just a pre-programmed computer making the music, it still isn't "fake"... it's still MUSIC!!! there can't be "fake" music unless it's actually NO music....
I guess the thread starter made the mistake of saying he's actually NOT a proghead by saying "all of you progheads"... So I wonder what the hell is he doing in a prog website.... Usually, when you write "hip hop" on Google, Progarchives.com will probably be the 394873947023 possible link, and that IF the system recognizes any comment made in a forum about hip hop.. but there's really no way to get here by mistake...
Recognize, thread starter, that you are also a proghead, and that you're also close-minded when you believe all of us are close-minded...
And even if we are, what the f**k is the problem? This is no Hoparchives.com...
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 19:17 |
YesGoblin wrote:
the fact that 50cent is topping the charts pretty much tells us that the music industry has gone down hill,
think of it, he's just singing ( if you can call it that), they can barely do live preformances, and when they do its all about the visuals to cover up the lack of musicality
the acutal music part is all programmed with drum machines and fake music |
how is this any different than Britney Spears or Backstreet Boys?
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chamberry
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 24 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
Status: Offline
Points: 9008
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 19:02 |
YesGoblin wrote:
the acutal music part is all programmed with drum machines and fake music |
And? There are alot of music genre who's music is based on drum machine and beats and that doesn't make it any less artistic.
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scruffydragon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 09 2008
Location: trowbridge
Status: Offline
Points: 250
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 19:00 |
I can remember when hip hop first crawled out from america and landed over here.It was a novilty at first,and I did listen to a lot of it.Found it quite funny when uk pop artists and rock artists started to jump on the bandwaggon.
But the problem with it for me is that we are constantly bombarded by it through TV,radio,HELL even the young people living down my street blast it out of the windows,so no excape.Even my brother used to blast it out of his room,or play it as loud as he could downstairs with his mates in tow.So you see I have been educated in it,and am still being educated in it.Problem is after this amount of time could say I am pretty fed up with it and all of its many forms. 
All I can say is thank god for prog.  
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YesGoblin
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 07 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 63
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 18:48 |
the fact that 50cent is topping the charts pretty much tells us that the music industry has gone down hill,
think of it, he's just singing ( if you can call it that), they can barely do live preformances, and when they do its all about the visuals to cover up the lack of musicality
the acutal music part is all programmed with drum machines and fake music
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YesGoblin
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 07 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 63
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 18:45 |
well said Trademark
exactly, just because we don't like a genre doesn't mean were being close minded
and besides quite frankly all rap is more or less the same
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Trademark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 17:52 |
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"...Are all you progheads so close-minded about Hip Hop?"
When you chose this particular word, you placed yourself outside the "family" of prog rock fans. This might be a part of why you haven't gotten the response you might have hoped for with this thread. Your tone is highly argumentative and you provide no examples whatsoever to support your outlandish (and whining) claims. Nearly every response to your inflammatory comments have been answered with thoughtful examples. Please do the same; your position has no validity without supporting evidence to back it up.
"it's just I've seen post after post calling rap a 'pollution' and how it's 'killing music', or people saying that it's flat-out not music."I've been on this site for over two years and have never seen even one single post saying any of these things. Show me the posts you're talking about that make you think that "us progheads" think this way.
"When I say 'prog is stale', I don't mean universally. I mean most of it is recycled crap."
Now to the real contradictions in your position. You initially call all of us (and you exclude no one in your opening post) close-minded. The correct words are actually closed-minded but we'll let your lack of knowledge of grammar and syntax slide for the moment. (maybe its a "rap thing") My question to you is how are you any different? First you call us all "close-minded" which is true. Most of us on this site are pretty close-minded. We all like a lot of the same music. Our tastes and what we think of this music (our minds) are pretty close. They are not however even remotely closed. Then you show your own closed-mindedness while also demonstrating your own lack of knowledge of the current prog scene by referring to it as Stale Crap.
As Ivan mentions, Prog is changing at a pace that hasn't been seen since the early 70's. A lot of it is moving in directions I don't particularly care for. I like Stale Crap. You have obviously not taken the time to familiarize yourself with much of what is new in Prog. So to use your own argument, you should look harder for prog that is new and different or to use your own words "I encourage people to try non-mainstream" Prog.The problem with your approach to this issue lies in the fact that you are equally guilty of every sin you accuse ALL of us of committing.
Rap and hip hop are as unavoidable as breathing in today's world. To accuse anyone of not knowing what it is about, or what it sounds like is the same as saying we hate ALL hamburgers because we don't like MacDonalds. I don't like hip hop because it doesn't hold my interest musically, and because lyrically I find a large portion of it (not all, but a lot) to be offensive. I did just hear something that I enjoy very much. It was a concerto for DJ (DJ Spooky, of NYC) and Orchestra (Boston) by a composer named Anthony DeRitiis. This piece of music used the technology of hip hop in a truly interesting and musical way that I think many on this site would like.
This is for DeRitis' home page where there is a nice explanation of the piece and some clips:
http://www.deritis.com/devolution/
Also, a link to the full 25 minute mp3 is here:
http://www.music.neu.edu/APD/devolution.mp3
Next time before you cry "Waaa Waaa" about something try to at least have some facts to help your intended audience "feel your pain". This isn't Xanga
Now, if you'll excuse me my close-minded friends and I are going to listen to some Stale Crap.
Edited by Trademark - February 19 2008 at 20:17
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 16:11 |
Rocktopus wrote:
MHDTV wrote:
2. A lack of knowledge of modern prog? Because I think it's mainly a bunch of rehashes of the band mebers 70's idols, I lack knowledge of modern prog?
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Yes, spot on.
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Don't forget a lot of it also rehashes of the avant prog!  A lot of bands are original, but of all the modern bands we have here, very very few are a whiff of fresh air. In my experience that is.
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 16:11 |
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listening to Saul Williams right now in fact
not sure of the relevance
perhaps a coincidence?
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 16:07 |
When one doesn't like a general style that doesn't mean one is close minded.
It takes knowledge about the subject to know if one does or does not like it.
So not liking a style infers that one has explored the field and thus is open minded about it, one has just reached the conclusion that it doesn't suit him/her.
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