Socialism.. does anyone have a clue.

Negoba wrote: The beautiful thing is that if you discard economic success as your measure of life success....you can evade this whole monster.   If the average american lived in the square footage and drove the micro-car the average metropolitan Italian does, you wouldn't need to make that much money. It's all about your perception of how you're doing.   (Just visited Europe for the first time this fall - eye opening)

Well, I don't even drive a car! The money I saved over the years by not having a car (not to mention the positive effects of walking regularly on my health) is something I am really proud of. Anyway, if you've been to Italy, you will have seen that our city streets don't really allow for cars that are too big. Unfortunately, though, we seem to have been going further and further in the direction of the US - including the horrible habit of buying stuff on credit.

Negoba wrote: The beautiful thing is that if you discard economic success as your measure of life success....you can evade this whole monster.

the more I read of your posts....  the more I like....  besides...  you can't take economic success to the grave with you.... it doesn't make you a better person...

it is all in how you live your life.. 

but that is another subject for another thread I'm sure we'll see at some point hahha.

Finnforest wrote: Negoba wrote: Disillusionment about work being even in the top 5 of the elements that go into your eventual economical success in this world. Boy that says alot.  I respect the faith in values that many of our young Libertarians have, but I think what you are hinting at is that the real world is going to challenge those Ayn Rand books in a big way.  Free will is oversold as a fact.

  amen ......

The beautiful thing is that if you discard economic success as your measure of life success....you can evade this whole monster.

Socialism is a lovely,charming idea that in a perfect world would work out just.Thing is,we don't live in a perfect world,and the attempts to get it on going so far were destroyed by lunatics who simply ambitioned the very thing they were suposed to be against.

Slartibartfast wrote: birdwithteeth11 wrote: I can't think of any way to address that post without a personal attack, so I won't say anything. Despite it though, being "thought provoking" and saying "Maybe God wants someone to rob your house and kill you and your family" is going too far. Anyway, I'm done with tangents. Back to talking about socialism! If you can't challenge my comments without a personal attack, what exactly does that say about you?  And then after saying you wouldn't say anything you proceeded to say something.   I was starting to get off into the whole free will vs God's will vs guns, which I admit doesn't have a lot to do with socialism, but seeing how he didn't actually have someone break into his house and kill his family, it's not too insensitive.

Post deleted.


Edited by birdwithteeth11 - March 26 2009 at 16:37

Negoba wrote: birdwithteeth11 wrote: Dean wrote: James wrote: Anyhow... Socialism! Yes. Socialism. Every day I get up and go to work. My salary is set by my boss, his salary is set by his boss and in turn his salary is set by some guy living in LA who cares little for what we do as long as we make a profit each year.   Whether I'm working class (as born) or middle class (through education and employment) - I still work for a living. Hard work got me where I am today, but it will not get me any further - all it will do is maintain the status quo. Until such time comes to pass where I have an independant income, I shall remain a socialist. But hard work and a good education did advance you some, correct? And as it has already been mentioned, not everyone is going to climb all the way to the top of the economic ladder. Some people have succeeded and others have failed. That part of humanity isn't going to change.   You're an intelligent person. I see some significant disillusionment in your future.

What do you mean by "significant disillusionment"? About how you get screwed over in the workplace and no one else really gives a damn?

I spent my last summer vacation working as a grunt in a warehouse for a company that packs and ships college textbooks. I saw my fair share of that. Especially since some of the people who worked there and weren't college students treated those of us who were like crap. And I suspect part of the reason was jealousy. I have an opportunity to get further in life than that with a degree in Finance, whereas Joe Smith who spends 8 hours per day 5 days a week packing textbooks in a warehouse probably never had that opportunity and never will.

I may be lower to middle middle-class, but I'm thankful of what opportunities I get. I'll work hard and claw my way up and it's not going to be an easy task for sure. But it's not impossible.

Negoba wrote: birdwithteeth11 wrote: Dean wrote: James wrote: Anyhow... Socialism! Yes. Socialism. Every day I get up and go to work. My salary is set by my boss, his salary is set by his boss and in turn his salary is set by some guy living in LA who cares little for what we do as long as we make a profit each year.   Whether I'm working class (as born) or middle class (through education and employment) - I still work for a living. Hard work got me where I am today, but it will not get me any further - all it will do is maintain the status quo. Until such time comes to pass where I have an independant income, I shall remain a socialist. But hard work and a good education did advance you some, correct? And as it has already been mentioned, not everyone is going to climb all the way to the top of the economic ladder. Some people have succeeded and others have failed. That part of humanity isn't going to change.   You're an intelligent person. I see some significant disillusionment in your future.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: My point being, education = power and advantage.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: Dean wrote: James wrote: Anyhow... Socialism! Yes. Socialism. Every day I get up and go to work. My salary is set by my boss, his salary is set by his boss and in turn his salary is set by some guy living in LA who cares little for what we do as long as we make a profit each year.   Whether I'm working class (as born) or middle class (through education and employment) - I still work for a living. Hard work got me where I am today, but it will not get me any further - all it will do is maintain the status quo. Until such time comes to pass where I have an independant income, I shall remain a socialist. But hard work and a good education did advance you some, correct? And as it has already been mentioned, not everyone is going to climb all the way to the top of the economic ladder. Some people have succeeded and others have failed. That part of humanity isn't going to change.