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Epignosis 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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 Posted: May 30 2009 at 15:56 |
 Evolver wrote:
I don't have any problem with your faith. However, I feel that you may have one.
You said "It's only God's grace that's changed me." The implication of that statement is that people who are unchanged by your god are lesser/unblessed/whatever. That's what I mean by putting yourself on a pedestal. It is praching, A truly humble person would have no need to say such things.
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Your "implication" would hold water only if you could tell what in me made God save me.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 15:51 |
Oh humility. What have you done! I would preach but I am not worthy.
I'd rather trust a man who doesn't shout what he's found.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 15:48 |
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Sorry for the misspell. I meant preaching.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 15:48 |
I don't have any problem with your faith. However, I feel that you may have one.
You said "It's only God's grace that's changed me." The implication of that statement is that people who are unchanged by your god are lesser/unblessed/whatever. That's what I mean by putting yourself on a pedestal. It is praching, A truly humble person would have no need to say such things.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 15:43 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
Tony R wrote:
Please do not copy and paste full lyrics. It is a clear breach of copyrighr and has got us into trouble in the past and will again if this carries on.
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My apologies. I should have had better judgment. I can edit the posts if you wish. |
No probs, already done it. 
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 15:40 |
Evolver wrote:
Those are platitudes. Not a response to my question. That's your prerogative.
Epignosis wrote:
I can't imagine it any better than this.
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I'm sorry. |
Sorry, but you will note that two of your "responses" to things I had to say earlier in this thread included "oh please" and "whatever  ." I don't think you can talk about platitudes. Besides, what I said are not platitudes- they are fundamental tenets of the Christian faith. If you can't appreciate that, then there's nothing more I can say to you.
I'm more interested to know why you seem to have a problem with my faith and that I choose to express the unadulterated message of the Bible through my music.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 15:34 |
Those are platitudes. Not a response to my question. That's your prerogative.
Epignosis wrote:
I can't imagine it any better than this.
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I'm sorry.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 13:48 |
Evolver wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
It's only God's grace that changed me. |
And you see no implication in this?
Epignosis wrote:
I get no credit for that. |
I believe you sell yourself short.
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I believe what the Bible teaches, which says the best things I could ever do are but filthy rags to God. But God (the two greatest words in Scripture right there) forgave my sin, and now I get to enjoy the benefits that come only from sharing the yoke of Christ.
I can't imagine it any better than this.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 13:34 |
Tony R wrote:
Please do not copy and paste full lyrics. It is a clear breach of copyrighr and has got us into trouble in the past and will again if this carries on.
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My apologies. I should have had better judgment. I can edit the posts if you wish.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 12:44 |
Please do not copy and paste full lyrics. It is a clear breach of copyrighr and has got us into trouble in the past and will again if this carries on.
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 12:00 |
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It is true that in general I see much more complaints about religious lyrics than non-religious lyrics. That's how things work on the internet though so I don't pay attention to the phenomenon anymore. Browse DIgg for too long and you pretty much get desensitized to net hypocrisy.
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KingCrimson250
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 573
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 11:57 |
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And both are quite preachy, which I suspect was the whole point of posting them
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 10:54 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Whatever you do don't give proper credits to the lyrics. 
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Sorry, both Maynard James Keenan. First was with APC, "Judith". Second was with tool from 10,000 Days.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 10:50 |
Whatever you do don't give proper credits to the lyrics.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 09:45 |
(I love the passion here)
You're the only one who can hold your head up high, Shake your fists at the gates saying: "I've come home now! Fetch me the spirit, the son, and the father. Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended. It's time now! My time now! Give me my, give me my wings!"
You are the light and way that they will only read about.
Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance, (With the) burden of proof tossed upon the believers. You were my witness, my eyes, my evidence, Judith Marie, unconditional one.
Daylight dims leaving cold fluorescents. Difficult to see you in this light. admin edit: posting full lyrics is a copyright breach, please don't do it. "
Edited by Tony R - May 30 2009 at 12:42
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 09:40 |
You're such an inspiration for the ways That I'll never ever choose to be Oh so many ways for me to show you How the savior has abandoned you F**k your God Your Lord and your Christ He did this Took all you had and Left you this way Still you pray, you never stray Never taste of the fruit You never thought to question why
admin edit: posting full lyrics is a copyright breach, please don't do it.
Edited by Tony R - May 30 2009 at 12:42
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 09:09 |
Epignosis wrote:
It's only God's grace that changed me. |
And you see no implication in this?
Epignosis wrote:
I get no credit for that. |
I believe you sell yourself short.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 08:59 |
By the way, when we secularists take over the government, just watch out for the cops at the door.  The no cops at the door may be more of a problem though...
Edited by Slartibartfast - May 30 2009 at 10:50
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 08:57 |
Evolver wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
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Christians don't get a pass because we don't have a nebulous religion. We believe in sin and judgment- period. That's a part of our message- certainly not all of it (praise God), but it's there. That message offends people ("How dare you call me a sinner!"), and I shrug and go, "But I didn't. God did. It's in the Bible." As I mentioned in another thread some days ago, being a Christian isn't a pedestal of moral superiority, and those Christians who treat their relationship with God as such (lording it over non-believers) are really missing the point.
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That's a cop out. It's a function of your god to judge people. Not you. You made the choice to put in your song a statement that says "behave this way, or believe this or God will punish you". To do so does put yourself on a pedistal of moral superiority. It is saying "this is the way, your way is wrong". You are most certainly free to say it. You are not free to govern how listeners feel about it.
And you brought up the term "whining" (you get points for spelling that correctly- but that's another discussion) when mentioning someone saying they don't like a religious message. But most of what I've read in reviews here sounds more like the comments you posted below about Coven, Rush, etc. Saying "I don't like the lyrics" is not whining.
[/QUOTE] How am I on a pedestal for passing along a message that is in the Bible? I believe the universe was created to be a gift for God's Son Jesus Christ (which is what the Bible teaches). I am humbled by that. The message is the opposite of what you say- I am no better than anybody else. It's only God's grace that changed me. I get no credit for that.Well...DUH.
And note that I never said I didn't like Rush's lyrics- I do. They're excellent. I just don't agree with them occasionally. My point was that I don't not listen to music because I disagree with the message of the lyrics.
Sorry for the colors- I would break this down by quotes, but I'm in a hurry this morning.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
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Posted: May 30 2009 at 08:44 |
Epignosis wrote:
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Christians don't get a pass because we don't have a nebulous religion. We believe in sin and judgment- period. That's a part of our message- certainly not all of it (praise God), but it's there. That message offends people ("How dare you call me a sinner!"), and I shrug and go, "But I didn't. God did. It's in the Bible." As I mentioned in another thread some days ago, being a Christian isn't a pedestal of moral superiority, and those Christians who treat their relationship with God as such (lording it over non-believers) are really missing the point.
[/QUOTE]
That's a cop out. It's a function of your god to judge people. Not you. You made the choice to put in your song a statement that says "behave this way, or believe this or God will punish you". To do so does put yourself on a pedistal of moral superiority. It is saying "this is the way, your way is wrong". You are most certainly free to say it. You are not free to govern how listeners feel about it.
And you brought up the term "whining" (you get points for spelling that correctly- but that's another discussion) when mentioning someone saying they don't like a religious message. But most of what I've read in reviews here sounds more like the comments you posted below about Coven, Rush, etc. Saying "I don't like the lyrics" is not whining.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Religious lyrics ?
