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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 29452
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Posted: November 15 2014 at 01:44 |
I seem to remember though that prog was actually 'cool'. Keith Emerson and his motorbike were a photo feature in some magazine around 1977 and a few kids would show that around the school. It was even just about the music as we tend to believe now. The bands got old and there were no one who could replace the sort of macho charisma that the likes of Keith Emerson had imo.
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: November 15 2014 at 00:34 |
Az that fellow said, we will pay the price but we will not count the cost.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: November 15 2014 at 00:30 |
The flame never dies. The flame eats away.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 23:47 |
TODDLER wrote:
Gerinski wrote:
As someone pointed, the environmental and cultural circumstances were completely different. Rock music was the main entertainment and vehicle for cultural expression for the youth of the early 70's. People awaited eagerly for the new albums, went to the shop to buy them, they shared them, listened to them together, discussed them, got stoned together listening to them, studied and discussed the artwork, copied the clothing styles of their musical heroes, hanged posters in their bedrooms, bought the music magazines because they talked about those bands... The bands knew this so they were engaged in a certain form of competition for becoming the most appealing and talked-about, musically and as a cultural and entertainment act.
Those of us who learnt Prog in the 70's can't avoid having our perception of the classic masterpieces linked to those environmental factors, which very probably gives them a deeper dimension in our hearts, and we may feel that although great music is surely made today (possibly even better from a purely technical point of view), some of the magic is gone.
But I am not sure if the young generations who are discovering the 70's classics now, free from their original environmental circumstances, agree that they were so much better than many modern great Prog albums.
I have discovered many truly fantastic modern albums, but the discovery experience is now much colder, I learn about them through the internet, order them online, I'm usually alone when I receive them and listen to them for the first times, and if I like them the only chance to share them and discuss them is with a few close friends who as myself do not have much time anymore for music, or through the net in places like PA with people I don't even know.
It's not "the flame" which is gone, it's the times.
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I agree and feel deeply that this damaged made to "the times" is more directly to blame on the industry itself. In the U.S. during the late 70's, Americans loved Prog. The industry took it away and people's attitudes changed about music because they were being sold something else that changed that attitude to respect musicianship. This entire business decision to shorten the length of songs influenced the minds and mentalities of younger generations that began in the 80's and extended through the 90's. People in general began to develop a short attention span for music ...as a result..over time of 3 decades. In the 70's the young audiences to see Prog bands play live varied in music tastes. NOTHING was compartmentalized into any business concept or any worry of a cult following instead of a massive one.. or that the music would fade and finally die.
Originally "Progressive Rock" appealed to masses and it had the finest respect from audiences for it's musicianship. I can't believe that it was actually represented over a period of 5 to 6 years ..as something to be taken seriously. No doubt, you had to be there..in the 70's.. to appreciate the surroundings of it's social gatherings and the seriousness of the music. Often it is said..."yeah..but..that was then, this is now" and to be honest what difference does it make when people my age are under the impression that there's something missing from the music. So...in point...maybe what you don't hear is something that was erased by the industry by their business motives to change music and the impression that would have on people. An impossible theory to back up with precise evidence...however...the simple idea to change music by replacing what was there in 78' with a new fad in 1980 could have influenced a mass of people to think and breath music differently than you or I. Which is the answer as to why the average person has a short attention span to a piece of music that contains more than 4 chords and 10 notes. On the average I would say that this occurred 40 percent of the time in the 70's. Even people who were afraid of ELP's music desired to investigate it. Everything was extreme and sometimes it felt like music as an ambition in life, was about being progressive. |
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Bitterblogger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 04 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1719
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 22:22 |
The Big 6 (I insist the Moody Blues also belong) are deep into the twilight of their careers, with some having ridden off into the sunset altogether or tacitly admitting they're a recycling oldies band--KC, idiosyncratic as always, is the exception. Boomer listeners are probably as much to blame as anything else--they want recreated hits from the past, with little tolerance for new material. The new generation carries the torch, and it's a vast smorgasbord of delightful sustenance which looks forward, in the true sense of what "progressive" really means. Theirs and their progeny, will continually refresh this underappreciated genre.
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Friday13th
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 30 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 284
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 19:12 |
I'm a young guy who heard some of my dad's vinyl's and was intrigued. My dad was a casual fan though, which given the vast reach of prog those days I assume that's not nearly as rare as now. However, how did I become hooked? The internet. Behold, wikipedia gives you a list of prog bands, you start looking up full albums on youtube that record companies are to lazy to take down, and now I've listened to all the popular bands and far more. Now that about 3 years are up, I'm roughly 10x more well-versed in prog then my dad. Yeah, their were bands back then that slayed, but I can't help but think some of you older folks had to have been lucky b*****ds to have discovered a band like Magma or Comus for instance. For the new generation, the flame just needs to be sparked and world of prog is at our fingertips! I still got to see Yes and The Moody Blues live with my equally geeky friend going nuts with the hippies, so I think time has handed us an even trade.
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 18:32 |
Gerinski wrote:
(...)
It's not "the flame" which is gone, it's the times.
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I agreed, of course. However, can you imagine the situation that you're in the seventies had the ability to see the future just for a second, just to see the progressive rock section at a great music platform such as Bandcamp, to see your fav band's recent gig in another corner of the World at YouTube, and that possibility that in this forum you chat with fans from around the world, but also with the already well established prog artists who are members of this forum? I guess that should be more than one usually WOW.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 18:03 |
Yes. Now go spend all your time listening to pop.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4812
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 17:05 |
SteveG wrote:
^And young people don't listen to Korn together? I guess my grand kids must be exceptions.  | Your response is full of corn.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 16:48 |
^And young people don't listen to Korn together? I guess my grand kids must be exceptions.
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4812
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 16:36 |
Gerinski wrote:
As someone pointed, the environmental and cultural circumstances were completely different. Rock music was the main entertainment and vehicle for cultural expression for the youth of the early 70's. People awaited eagerly for the new albums, went to the shop to buy them, they shared them, listened to them together, discussed them, got stoned together listening to them, studied and discussed the artwork, copied the clothing styles of their musical heroes, hanged posters in their bedrooms, bought the music magazines because they talked about those bands... The bands knew this so they were engaged in a certain form of competition for becoming the most appealing and talked-about, musically and as a cultural and entertainment act.
Those of us who learnt Prog in the 70's can't avoid having our perception of the classic masterpieces linked to those environmental factors, which very probably gives them a deeper dimension in our hearts, and we may feel that although great music is surely made today (possibly even better from a purely technical point of view), some of the magic is gone.
But I am not sure if the young generations who are discovering the 70's classics now, free from their original environmental circumstances, agree that they were so much better than many modern great Prog albums.
I have discovered many truly fantastic modern albums, but the discovery experience is now much colder, I learn about them through the internet, order them online, I'm usually alone when I receive them and listen to them for the first times, and if I like them the only chance to share them and discuss them is with a few close friends who as myself do not have much time anymore for music, or through the net in places like PA with people I don't even know.
It's not "the flame" which is gone, it's the times.
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God, this was beautifully written. Kudos to you, sir. You captured my thoughts and experiences, having grown up in the '70s myself, eloquently!
Edited by Rednight - November 14 2014 at 16:42
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 15:54 |
^I'm not so sure Todd, as Roundabout by Yes was generally played on FM radio as a 'single edit', so the 3 minute song actually invaded all areas of radio. It was only late night FM that played unedited tracks from prog albums. Remember Allison Steele, The Night Bird?
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 13:54 |
Gerinski wrote:
As someone pointed, the environmental and cultural circumstances were completely different. Rock music was the main entertainment and vehicle for cultural expression for the youth of the early 70's. People awaited eagerly for the new albums, went to the shop to buy them, they shared them, listened to them together, discussed them, got stoned together listening to them, studied and discussed the artwork, copied the clothing styles of their musical heroes, hanged posters in their bedrooms, bought the music magazines because they talked about those bands... The bands knew this so they were engaged in a certain form of competition for becoming the most appealing and talked-about, musically and as a cultural and entertainment act.
Those of us who learnt Prog in the 70's can't avoid having our perception of the classic masterpieces linked to those environmental factors, which very probably gives them a deeper dimension in our hearts, and we may feel that although great music is surely made today (possibly even better from a purely technical point of view), some of the magic is gone.
But I am not sure if the young generations who are discovering the 70's classics now, free from their original environmental circumstances, agree that they were so much better than many modern great Prog albums.
I have discovered many truly fantastic modern albums, but the discovery experience is now much colder, I learn about them through the internet, order them online, I'm usually alone when I receive them and listen to them for the first times, and if I like them the only chance to share them and discuss them is with a few close friends who as myself do not have much time anymore for music, or through the net in places like PA with people I don't even know.
It's not "the flame" which is gone, it's the times.
|
I agree and feel deeply that this damaged made to "the times" is more directly to blame on the industry itself. In the U.S. during the late 70's, Americans loved Prog. The industry took it away and people's attitudes changed about music because they were being sold something else that changed that attitude to respect musicianship. This entire business decision to shorten the length of songs influenced the minds and mentalities of younger generations that began in the 80's and extended through the 90's. People in general began to develop a short attention span for music ...as a result..over time of 3 decades. In the 70's the young audiences to see Prog bands play live varied in music tastes. NOTHING was compartmentalized into any business concept or any worry of a cult following instead of a massive one.. or that the music would fade and finally die.
Originally "Progressive Rock" appealed to masses and it had the finest respect from audiences for it's musicianship. I can't believe that it was actually represented over a period of 5 to 6 years ..as something to be taken seriously. No doubt, you had to be there..in the 70's.. to appreciate the surroundings of it's social gatherings and the seriousness of the music. Often it is said..."yeah..but..that was then, this is now" and to be honest what difference does it make when people my age are under the impression that there's something missing from the music. So...in point...maybe what you don't hear is something that was erased by the industry by their business motives to change music and the impression that would have on people. An impossible theory to back up with precise evidence...however...the simple idea to change music by replacing what was there in 78' with a new fad in 1980 could have influenced a mass of people to think and breath music differently than you or I. Which is the answer as to why the average person has a short attention span to a piece of music that contains more than 4 chords and 10 notes. On the average I would say that this occurred 40 percent of the time in the 70's. Even people who were afraid of ELP's music desired to investigate it. Everything was extreme and sometimes it felt like music as an ambition in life, was about being progressive.
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 13:26 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
Nope, but the fire has definitely spread to other fields than prog. The part that made prog musicians truly progressive in their day is often found in modern electronic music. The search for an altogether new sonic expression and the freedom and will to explore it, yep go to the electronic genre to look for that. |
I felt this way about Ron Geesin's last official release..Ron Cycle 1
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 12:38 |
Gerinski wrote:
As someone pointed, the environmental and cultural circumstances were completely different. Rock music was the main entertainment and vehicle for cultural expression for the youth of the early 70's. People awaited eagerly for the new albums, went to the shop to buy them, they shared them, listened to them together, discussed them, got stoned together listening to them, studied and discussed the artwork, copied the clothing styles of their musical heroes, hanged posters in their bedrooms, bought the music magazines because they talked about those bands... The bands knew this so they were engaged in a certain form of competition for becoming the most appealing and talked-about, musically and as a cultural and entertainment act.
Those of us who learnt Prog in the 70's can't avoid having our perception of the classic masterpieces linked to those environmental factors, which very probably gives them a deeper dimension in our hearts, and we may feel that although great music is surely made today (possibly even better from a purely technical point of view), some of the magic is gone.
But I am not sure if the young generations who are discovering the 70's classics now, free from their original environmental circumstances, agree that they were so much better than many modern great Prog albums.
I have discovered many truly fantastic modern albums, but the discovery experience is now much colder, I learn about them through the internet, order them online, I'm usually alone when I receive them and listen to them for the first times, and if I like them the only chance to share them and discuss them is with a few close friends who as myself do not have much time anymore for music, or through the net in places like PA with people I don't even know.
It's not "the flame" which is gone, it's the times.
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Agree.
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-Kehlog Albran
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4812
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 12:29 |
Polymorphia wrote:
Rednight wrote:
As long as bored 15-year-old boys are still around and sneaking into their fathers' dens to discover and pull out that battered copy of Yes' Fragile for a spin, there's still hope... | Jack and his friends were shivering with excitement, anticipation in their secret hideout. They knew the girls wouldn't approve of what they were looking at. But they were young and who cared about those sissies anyway? They stared at the glossy cover of what Jack had found in his father's top drawer. This was it. A prog album. 
| "Like some tacky little pamphlet In your daddy's bottom drawer..." -Zappa That's all that comes to mind, quite frankly. And don't quit your day job.
Edited by Rednight - November 14 2014 at 12:31
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 10:52 |
Rednight wrote:
As long as bored 15-year-old boys are still around and sneaking into their fathers' dens to discover and pull out that battered copy of Yes' Fragile for a spin, there's still hope... | Jack and his friends were shivering with excitement, anticipation in their secret hideout. They knew the girls wouldn't approve of what they were looking at. But they were young and who cared about those sissies anyway? They stared at the glossy cover of what Jack had found in his father's top drawer. This was it. A prog album.
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4812
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 10:41 |
As long as bored 15-year-old boys are still around and sneaking into their fathers' dens to discover and pull out that battered copy of Yes' Fragile for a spin, there's still hope...
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 02:26 |
As someone pointed, the environmental and cultural circumstances were completely different. Rock music was the main entertainment and vehicle for cultural expression for the youth of the early 70's. People awaited eagerly for the new albums, went to the shop to buy them, they shared them, listened to them together, discussed them, got stoned together listening to them, studied and discussed the artwork, copied the clothing styles of their musical heroes, hanged posters in their bedrooms, bought the music magazines because they talked about those bands... The bands knew this so they were engaged in a certain form of competition for becoming the most appealing and talked-about, musically and as a cultural and entertainment act.
Those of us who learnt Prog in the 70's can't avoid having our perception of the classic masterpieces linked to those environmental factors, which very probably gives them a deeper dimension in our hearts, and we may feel that although great music is surely made today (possibly even better from a purely technical point of view), some of the magic is gone.
But I am not sure if the young generations who are discovering the 70's classics now, free from their original environmental circumstances, agree that they were so much better than many modern great Prog albums.
I have discovered many truly fantastic modern albums, but the discovery experience is now much colder, I learn about them through the internet, order them online, I'm usually alone when I receive them and listen to them for the first times, and if I like them the only chance to share them and discuss them is with a few close friends who as myself do not have much time anymore for music, or through the net in places like PA with people I don't even know.
It's not "the flame" which is gone, it's the times.
Edited by Gerinski - November 14 2014 at 02:29
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: November 14 2014 at 00:21 |
richardh wrote:
Power To Believe is a great album so King Crimson can safely be left out of this hypothesis.( however read my later comments)
ELP's last album was crap but then they were virtually crippled and trying to churn out an album to save a dying record company ( they might just as well as bombed it for the good it did). Their last brilliant album anyway was 1973's Brain Salad Surgery
Yes - Relayer was the last time they made a significant progressive rock statement imo although there are plenty of good albums that followed and I do like the most recent.
Genesis and the descent into pop music has been discussed to death but then they stopped being a proper working band 20 years ago.
Jethro Tull is the one band of the big five I don't own much of. I'm guessing though that they haven't made anything as good as say Thick and A Brick or A Passion Play since those albums. They found massive success in the USA in the eighties although I gather a lot of it was not proggy . The recent stuff by ian Anderson I do own and its very good but not exactly earth shattering.
Other than KC the big five were on slippery slope from about 1975 onwards. King Crimson has bucked the trend by to all intents and purposes being an ongoing project of Robert Fripp rather than a band in any traditional way. A band has to have an ongoing collaboration of a core membership. King Criimson barely had that at all. Fripp decides what he wanted to to do and then recruites accordingly. Nothing wrong with that and avoids the possibility of lurching head first into self parody which often happens to bands that have been around for thousand of years.
| Good summary. Agree about KC. Fripps approach has meant they have survived and maintained artistic edge. Konstruction of Light wasn't fantastic, but certainly everything up to and including Power to Believe ranks alongside their 70's efforts imo.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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